Monty Ignition timing

C

ChrisH

New member
Just following on from an archived post (last August 20th by Moalboal) I was wondering whether anyone actually got to the bottom of his issues?

I have a similar issue in that the book says set the pickups at 0.1-0.2mm gap but I can't get them below 1.0mm with the mounting plate adjustment that's possible as it is. With a strobe it's showing that the ignition is retarded (mark on the flywheel is about about one centimetre to the right of the casing mark) and again I can't get any more adjustment on the back plate. The last thread on this didn't really have an ending, I'd be interested to know what Moalboal did in the end (other than just buy a Witt ignition?

Bike starts fine and will idle at 1200 / 1400, carbs aren't balanced yet.
 
Hi Chris,
Before you do anything esle you need to  double check the mark on the casing is correct for TDC ,chances are its not!
Once correct you will be able to use your strobe with some confidence.

Andy
 
If you go to the trouble of ensuring the TDC mark is correct on the cover take the time to strobe both the left and right cylinders too. The pick-ups have a little bit of lateral adjustment and having these set up correctly helps a bit with easier starting and a smooth low idle.

Tom
 
ChrisH said:
The last thread on this didn't really have an ending, I'd be interested to know what Moalboal did in the end (other than just buy a Witt ignition?
Click to expand...

Bought a Witt ignition - which I haven't fitted yet :). But seriously, I never got to the bottom of this after making all the checks and tests suggested in the original thread. I still haven't got the bike registered (in Switzerland) so road testing does not happen very often and am now working on Plan E to get the Monty legal. Once I can actually ride it (maybe this year), I'll be taking it over to visit Tom over the border to see what he thinks - and probably doing a more professional job to fit the Witt as well!

Happy New Year to all.

Simon.
 
moalboal said:
ChrisH said:
The last thread on this didn't really have an ending, I'd be interested to know what Moalboal did in the end (other than just buy a Witt ignition?
Click to expand...

Bought a Witt ignition - which I haven't fitted yet :). But seriously, I never got to the bottom of this after making all the checks and tests suggested in the original thread. I still haven't got the bike registered (in Switzerland) so road testing does not happen very often and am now working on Plan E to get the Monty legal. Once I can actually ride it (maybe this year), I'll be taking it over to visit Tom over the border to see what he thinks - and probably doing a more professional job to fit the Witt as well!

Happy New Year to all.

Simon.
Click to expand...

you're going to try and put a monty on the road in switzerland? :o what do you put in you roll your owns? :-X

they don't even like my 82 750 honda with the sito 'quieter than original' zorsts on it - the thing whispers. fortunately it's registered in D
 
Chris,

If you are still interested then I have found the same issue with the Alpino. It always wants to be retarded with the pick ups within the range of the slots. The mark on the crank is fine as far as I can tell. I did it by feel rather than dial gauge but as far as I can tell that's just the way it is. I was able to get it pretty damn close at the prescribed 3,000rpm by filing the slots a bit more and I was able to achieve the prescribed gap.

Piet has replied to one of my questions on this indicating an after market ignition system is a real improvement. I tend to agree. The timing mark for full advanced happens at 3,000rpm for an engine that redlines at 8,000.  :o

If you aren't revving the little thing then it will be at static advance rather than full advance which is where the timing line is. What I've noticed is that there doesn't seem to be a smooth advance in the ignition at all. Its almost a 2 step system, static then full.  ???

Anyway the Alpino lives. It will start, idle at less than 1,000rpm and everything on it now does what it is supposed to do. I even have it working at the claimed 6.5/100km. It is the thirstiest of all my bikes including the 850 Lemans III. Not just by a small margin but by about 15-25%.  :o Carb jetting for the Alpino is OEM.

I am satisfied with what I have at the moment. I was going to try and use the Alpino as a short range tourer to go to rallies and such within a days ride but its small tank and thirsty habits have relegated it closer to home and I won't bother fitting it with luggage. My Monza, with a 650 motor, returns 5L/100km and has 1 1/2 Litres more in the tank. This gives it a range of about 320km where the Alpino is 100km short of that. The LM III is capable of about 450-480km before I need to push, over twice the little Lav.

Still, it is a fun little thing and very pretty. I've expanded my knowledge whilst working on it and would like to thank all of those who have offered advice and of course Red and Max who have supplied the bits I needed.

Cheers

Rod
 
Many 500's left the factory with the slot in the ignition rotor milled in the wrong place, my 79' Monty being one.
This was pointed out to me by The Hobbit the one time he worked on my bike, it was FAR too retarded & would not strobe anywhere near the factory marks, we re-drilled the rotor & hey presto, the bike was transormed.
How to do it is really quite simple:
Firstly & very importantly check the factory TDC mark on the alternator is in fact at TDC, do this with a timing disc & TDC tool, if not, re-mark & deface the factory markings to avoid future confusion.
Next centralise both pickups in there adjustment slots, turn the crank until the advance mark lines up with the casing mark.
Now loosen the rotor screw & pull it forward until the peg just disengages from the slot, turn the rotor until the trailing edge of the magnet is JUST passing the raised bit on the exiter coil, hold everything steady & tap the rotor with a dead blow mallet, this will leave a witness mark on the rotor, drill a new hole at this point.
Then assemble it all together, fire it up & fine tune with the strobe as neccary.
Now you will get full advance & low speed running will be far crisper.
BTW the system goes from fully retarded to fully advanced at 1500rpm, but best to hold the revs at 3k+ when strobing & use a good quality strobe such as a Snap-On, it makes a lot of difference!
The rotor/exiter coil air gap does seem to influence the advance point to a degree....

Most 500's left the factory way over-jetted, I dropped the mains in the Monty from 155's to 135's years ago (34mm smoothbored PHF's with K&N's) & will investigate doing the same to the Alpino this year, going from 115's, to say, 105's as its only doing about 25mpg.... :(
Ciao,
Ross.
 
I clicked on the link just now & it took me straight to it!
 
Just sits there blank each time I have tried it.  (a bit like me then)
 
Hmm, just tried it again & it went straight to my site....
 
Works OK for me in the UK...

However, it is made in Flash, so that may be your problem. Do you have a Flash blocker enabled on your browser? If you don't have Flash, which is unusual, you should get a text based version of the site.

My bet is on the Flash blocking line...

--
Dick
 
henry said:
moalboal said:
suggested in the original thread. I still haven't got the bike registered (in Switzerland) so road testing does not happen very often and am now working on Plan E to get the Monty legal. Once I can actually ride it (maybe this year), I'll be taking it over to visit Tom over the
Click to expand...

you're going to try and put a monty on the road in switzerland? :o what do you put in you roll your owns? :-X
Click to expand...

Call me an eternal optimist if you like - many do :). Plan E is under way, supervised by Tom Eatman which will at least get things going in the right direction. Whether it works or not is impossible to say right but if it doesn't then there is still a fall-back Plan F . . . .

Tom if you've setup the Witt and checked the timing marks already perhaps you'd care to post what you found?

Cheers

Simon.
 
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