New billet clutch cover, coming soon

[Vince]

All I can say again is there must be wildly different pulls on each machine.Maybe we need to try a fish scale type test on a few pulls and see whats what.There obviously has to be some reason why Phil came up with the extended lever in the first place,I had done the same to a Montese MX bike a few years before as it was NUTS,its link as full exposed ,had no idea it was possible on a Laverda as I hadn't been into the case at that time.Saw Phil's mod in Classic bike,rang him for the details and made my own.Made the bike so much easier for me to ride,and stopped me braking 3 or 4 cables a year.

 

[Terry Dymond]

Rode Tom the Wrecker's Jota for a 100 kays or so and didn't find the clutch a problem.

 

[motoddrob]

After using the 750SFC as a courier bike in London  you guys have no idea what a heavy clutch is like

 

[tyelav13]

  It's really great to see large items being made, but the pricing would worry me on an item like this - it can't be sold in volume and the "Keep it standard" brigade will still pay over the odds for an original inferior item. IMHO - it would have more chance of appealing to a larger market if it had no logo on it. I enclose a shot of the "poor man's billet clutch cover" for all you cable aficionados! - Regards - Phil

you putting these into production Phil? 

 

[phil37]

you putting these into production Phil? 

I don't think they have quite the bling appeal for most owners Tyrone - only works on a 120? motor anyway!! I once had a roadtester describe the clutch action on my Saxon/Motodd as "being able to pull the clutch lever in with the nail of his little finger" - this motor had SFC750 spec clutch springs too. He may have been exaggerating though!Personally I don't like any hydraulic clutches on a motorcycle, as, on that odd trip down the road on my arse, I could far more easily, cheaply and quickly replace the handlebar lever and cable. With a good working adjuster wheel on the lever I never found any problems of dragging when motor was hot. - Regards - Phil

 

[Simonr501]

So!

Confucious say if you don't like billet alloy hydraulic clutch covers - don't buy one!

 

[Laverdalothar]

Instead of buying a workout tool, folk could just go ride their Laverdas and build up their clutch pull muscles the right way, no????  :-*

says the man with the Corsa (hydraulic clutch), the POP (hydraulic clutch) and who is living in all year good weather Spain... Please don't forget about us lots that have a winter time of aprox. 4-5 months where you simply don't like to ride your bike. That is enough time for muscles to forget what they were trained and to cause TSV...  :

 

[Grant]

POP has a cable clutch.
At 1000 metres here where I live there are proper winters, proper snow and proper low temperatures.
Lowest in the cave was -6?C but in the hills behnd where I live they have recorded below -24?C.
So, I don't get your point...
Too hot in peak summer and too cold/icy/snowy in winter.
Both my bikes have one finger pull clutch levers because they were put together to be like that.
I don't have an issue with the usual clutch pull effort either. Maybe because of 35 years of practice, maybe something else. 

 

[Laverdalothar]

Sorry, this looked like a modern hydraulic lever:

Even then, it is a modern, adjustable lever, something different to the crappy things that are on a Laverda typically, especially on the old 750's...

However, I do agree that proper setup of the cable clutch actuation makes a hugh difference. Had the 750 SF(0) with a to long cable and some miss-match in the setup. Piet has adjusted everything perfectly and exchanged the cable for a shorter one and the force needed was reduced by at least 30% (while the first setup was one of the heaviest I ever had on a Laverda...).

Still: there is an advantage in each system. I do prefer the hydraulic one though, but that's a personal decision...

To the point of temperature: how many winters have you seen in Spain with temperatures that cold as the last two winter, please? My wife's best girlfriend lives in the very north-west (Leon) of Spain, she said she never saw a winter like that for many years before... In Germany, if you are 1.000 Meters high, you face 2 meters of snow...  -6?C did not keep me from riding (you can see the result of that salt on the roads still on both my Jota and the 1000 SFC...). Snow does. :-*

 

[Grant]

Here is a different angle


I had already said I had prepared the clutch to operate more easily on both bikes using modern dogleg levers and modern pivots.

I find that the inherent stiction in a cable clutch helps a bit when the lever is pulled in as it inhibits clutch spring tension wanting to pull the lever back. Not something inherent in a hydraulic set up. Then again, a well designed hydraulic set up can overcome heavy clutch lever pull quite easily.

Regarding the weather I was merely pointing out that living in Spain is not all sun, sea, sand and sangria.
Winters here are hard. Living so close to the mountains behind the town (up to 2428 metres/7965 feet) means there is a tendency for micro climates, different even to what is experienced in Madrid, only 45 minutes away.

 

[2622]

Back in the day the fix for clutch slip was heavier springs so there is a very good chance there are quite a few bikes with them still in hence clutch effort harder on some than others.
These days Red has some "modern" lined plates which work great so I went back to standard springs which makes the clutch pull much lighter and yet no slip.

The billet clutch covers look trick and are a testament to Red's many many skills.

 

[Cosi]

Back in the day the fix for clutch slip was heavier springs so there is a very good chance there are quite a few bikes with them still in hence clutch effort harder on some than others.
These days Red has some "modern" lined plates which work great so I went back to standard springs which makes the clutch pull much lighter and yet no slip.

The billet clutch covers look trick and are a testament to Red's many many skills.

Funny we were talking about that lastnight, according to the Boss the cover / kit will allow you to fit all 6 springs as heavy duty with the "fingernail pull" 

 

[Simonr501]

Funny we were talking about that lastnight, according to the Boss the cover / kit will allow you to fit all 6 springs as heavy duty with the "fingernail pull" 

That's very interesting! Are we talking about a larger piston in the cover?
You have my full attention now, as 'dare I say it' the standard set up is slightly heavy.

Hydraulic system do have advantages, otherwise they would be extinct by now. The great thing is that force multipication is as easy as changing master/slave piston diamenter.

 

[redax5]

CNC mate over last night and we went through the changes that need to be made to the clutch cover
main points are;

Laverda logo needs to be straightened to match bike stance
Laverda logo is going to be made smaller and to be machined into the alloy (negative relief) instead of machining around the logo (positive relief)
will be 3 versions made of the cover, one with no logo at all, one with Laverda logo and the 3rd will have Redax Laverda, is up to the buyer which to purchase
radius on the edges is being increased from 1mm radiu to 4mm radiu, may increase further yet, need to see effect after we machine this cover
need to machine the profile for the clutch piston dust cover to be installed
worked out what type of fittings to use (crush) for the hydraulic hose and bleed nipple which are both being mounted on top face of the cover
transfer shaft mount for gear linkage crossover is being removed and will be drilled and tapped as per standard covers
we need to shift the selector drum hole slightly

think that is it

plan is to install at least 3 clutch covers within the next 2 weeks and to start riding/testing them

pricing, worked out a price with my mate and as with any new product, we have to try and recoup our outlay which is quite large, we also had to commit to an "x" number of covers which allows him to work out per unit cost so we committed to buying a minimum of 75 covers in total which we hope we can sell so price for the bare cover at this stage is going to be AUD$775 (+GST in Australia), 430 pounds/ 540 euro/ US$720, once we hit production we hope to be able to reduce this figure further but everything now depends on sales

full kit price will be higher once we start adding gaskets, stainless bolts, braided stainless hose, fittings, piston, piston dust seal, 13mm Master cylinder, etc

Brembo 13mm Master cylinders, there are 4 available and they range in price from the REC black version for US$125 to the REM Goldline 996 version for US$220 so am thinking we will give the new owner the option to buy their own master cylinders (or we can supply if requested) as we can not afford to buy a stock of 75 different master cylinders as well as fund the cost of the covers

so now you all can knock yourselves out discussing the price instead of the size and shape of the logo, etc

cheers

 

[redax5]

That's very interesting! Are we talking about a larger piston in the cover?
You have my full attention now, as 'dare I say it' the standard set up is slightly heavy.

if we went to a larger piston with the 13mm master we would lose clutch plate separation, we could have gone larger piston by using a radial type master cylinder but felt that would spoil the look around the handlebars, just too modern
so sizing we used is the same as I have been running on my own 81 Jota for last 4 years, 13mm master cylinder, 30mm piston, never had any issues with selecting gears or the bike creeping away at the lights and with 3 x heavy duty and 3 x standard clutch springs installed, clutch pull is very light

but we can make whatever anyone wants, now program is written we can change piston size to suit any requirement

 

[redax5]

last post, we are going to change the cover slightly so it will be able to be installed on the 750 twins as well as the triples

 

[Dellortoman]

so now you all can knock yourselves out discussing the price instead of the size and shape of the logo, etc

OK. Here goes ...

I reckon you've priced it about right for the market. I'm a little surprised you can do it that cheaply. I'd guess you've invested several thousand bucks in development that will need to be recovered in sales.

As we're in Australia, I'll convert to $Aus as a comparative currency.

It's cheaper than Andy Wagner's "replica parts" 180? hydraulic cover at 645.38 € (about $930 Aus). I dunno how Andy's is made, but presume it's cast. It's worth noting that price is for the cover only - other hydraulic bits are sold separately.

Keith's hydraulic conversion kit using a modified original cable-type cover is a bit cheaper at ?320 (about $580 Aus) but it's a very different engineering solution. I like Keith's design. It's neat and un-complicated (simple is good in engineering). The only drawback is that it's dependent on the availability of cable-type covers for conversion. I reckon a some owners might want to keep the old cover for "originality" purposes, in case the bike is eventually sold to an originality freak. So the price of another cover would need to be factored in for those owners.

 

[fast_eddie]

plan is to install at least 3 clutch covers within the next 2 weeks and to start riding/testing them

I am happy to put one on my bike and test it for you. 

 

[beauchemin]

<snip> With a good working adjuster wheel on the lever I never found any problems of dragging when motor was hot. - Regards - Phil

This is why the Y*m*h* R1 clutch lever assembly is so nice - comes with both a dogleg lever, and a very effective adjuster wheel that can be adjusted on-the-fly.

 

[Romeo.D]

Fair deal sems to me .