Nitron Piggybacks.
- Thread starter Vince
- Start date
Andy
Hero member
- Location
- Auckland, roughly
I’ve got non piggy-back Nitrons, and I think they’re pretty good. Certainly heaps better than original. I’m able to set them for comfort without affecting handling, and vice versa. I use a slightly higher preload with less damping and seems to work well for me. Too high damping was hurting my back.
I guess the piggy back ones are better still.
I guess the piggy back ones are better still.
Dellortoman
Hero member
- Location
- Tasmania, Australia
Well, that defies logic. If changes in settings don't affect comfort or handling, what are the adjustments for?
The non-piggys have a combined compression and rebound adjuster nob that does both together. The piggies completely separate them with individual nobs that control each individually plus another nob for high-speed compression. Just what my back needs I bloody hope. What would be good to know is if these adjusters cover my needs, I have heard stories about revalves being needed on other high-end shocks for a compliant ride. I want a fit adjust and forget experience for the money these cost.
My guess from Andy's post is set to a soft and comfy setting doest set the bike to doing the hippy hippy shake and weave and that's exactly what I want. I want less back cracking and still controlled steering and handling. I have a set of Remote resiviour Ohlin twin shocks on an early 80s Husky rebuilt by Frank Pons,spannered for Euro Mx teams at an eye-watering cost, they are pre-monoshock as Husky avoided monos for quite a few years but have rising-rate internal damping, not sure on that but that bike is amazing with its rear end feel.
Andy
Hero member
- Location
- Auckland, roughly
yeah I guess you could take it that way…But Vince understood what was in my head:
I was thinking of the old Marzos, which had to be wound up so hard to limit the wallow that the bike became uncomfortable.
Cosi
Hero member
- Location
- Kingscliff
I know one thing for sure Vince, if you buy a set
of them they will keep you amused for years trying to find a setting that works for you, too many clicks bud, keep it simple
of them they will keep you amused for years trying to find a setting that works for you, too many clicks bud, keep it simple
I have a non piggy on an LC250 I have, it's excellent - especially compared to a std shock! Like you say though, it has a dual function adjuster that does compression and rebound. I'm not going to race the LC, so it's more than good enough for the (at best!) keen road riding I do. Coming from an off-road racing back ground, I'm used to having lots of knobs to twiddle with but for the most part they'd not be required by most riders on the road. That said, I believe Nitron will give you a spring set up tailored to your weight, riding style etc. If you opt for the piggies and go for springing on the soft side, you should be able to keep her behaving well by dialing up a bit on the rebound. I'm actually toying with doing the same on mine, as the std Konis are about as compliant as a house brick. Good luck!
That's the problem I am having with the Icons, my back has become the bump stop. We have had insane rain for months around Sydney most ever on record and the roads are pretty bad, I was on a ride approaching 2 riders I didn't know when the first idiot suddenly slams the brake, 80k road straight with no reason to stop. So I steer right to pass him while twisting my body left to eyeball him and hit an unseen pothole. It Jared my back badly, this was 6 weeks back and I am still hurting occasionally. Better shocks I am sure would have helped.
Fitted on my 3CL some months ago, furthest distance I have ridden though on a single run is only some 125 kms. The originals were just really tired with the rubber inserts breaking away from the eyelets. Fortunately I live in Austria so road surfaces are usually pretty good. As mentioned by Cosi - a lot of clicks to play around with - kept them as they arrived from NITRON as they were designed with my weight in mind. Only issue I found on fitting is that the right hand unit runs quite close to the chainguard, other than that an easy fit.
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VInce
Ok so after talking to you the other night I get the feeling that the reason you want piggy backs is so you can play with all the dampening settings … both low and hi speed etc.. guess that would let you start another thread about it.
.
Nitron hmm the jury is still out I feel as there are a few folk who have struggled to get them to do what they want and again unless you buy something which is built to suit your needs precisely then its only a
If you want sheer comfort and to avoid the issues with your back then just buy a set of Fournales… plain and simple they never bottom out by their design… I love them on my touring bike for sure though perhaps my limited milage using them maybe means I am not in the know..
Trust me having spent a good deal of money on various suspension for various reasons..I can tell you this that Racetec are the heavy weights in far as custom built shocks… as they are set up exactly for you and your particular needs …. So when you pay your hard earned and then wait for them to be built exactly to the your spec’s you simply bolt them on set the sag and they just work Plain and simple but are not cheap.
The Matris I have have which are non piggy back .. cost more than the racetec but IMHO whilst they certainly look better built and look higher quality than the racetech they are not as good overall … in that its hard to argue against gold valves in shocks. Thought to be fair the Matris are one a series one bike so they are upright so the travel and mechanical working range are less … also the springs that racetec use are from the best known maker to man and have a lifetime warranty on the spring..
I also have 2wins which are a great all round shock and excellent value for money and are certainly an upgrade from Koni’s or Icon.
If you want a shock that has all the adjustability then a set of YSS piggy backs are not a bad option and there are a lot of folk on here that have had the experience with them.
Will has done a lot of research on Ohlins which also a number of riders also use and there are heaps of info there also.
Again as per the club meeting you could also do a lot worse than Maxton rears as they do a piggy back also and again are built custom to suit your bike, your weight and your needs.
compromise.
So why go down a route relatively un chartered… both Tom and myself ask.. right we are going to have coffee now.
Ok so after talking to you the other night I get the feeling that the reason you want piggy backs is so you can play with all the dampening settings … both low and hi speed etc.. guess that would let you start another thread about it.
.Nitron hmm the jury is still out I feel as there are a few folk who have struggled to get them to do what they want and again unless you buy something which is built to suit your needs precisely then its only a
If you want sheer comfort and to avoid the issues with your back then just buy a set of Fournales… plain and simple they never bottom out by their design… I love them on my touring bike for sure though perhaps my limited milage using them maybe means I am not in the know..
Trust me having spent a good deal of money on various suspension for various reasons..I can tell you this that Racetec are the heavy weights in far as custom built shocks… as they are set up exactly for you and your particular needs …. So when you pay your hard earned and then wait for them to be built exactly to the your spec’s you simply bolt them on set the sag and they just work Plain and simple but are not cheap.
The Matris I have have which are non piggy back .. cost more than the racetec but IMHO whilst they certainly look better built and look higher quality than the racetech they are not as good overall … in that its hard to argue against gold valves in shocks. Thought to be fair the Matris are one a series one bike so they are upright so the travel and mechanical working range are less … also the springs that racetec use are from the best known maker to man and have a lifetime warranty on the spring..
I also have 2wins which are a great all round shock and excellent value for money and are certainly an upgrade from Koni’s or Icon.
If you want a shock that has all the adjustability then a set of YSS piggy backs are not a bad option and there are a lot of folk on here that have had the experience with them.
Will has done a lot of research on Ohlins which also a number of riders also use and there are heaps of info there also.
Again as per the club meeting you could also do a lot worse than Maxton rears as they do a piggy back also and again are built custom to suit your bike, your weight and your needs.
compromise.
So why go down a route relatively un chartered… both Tom and myself ask.. right we are going to have coffee now.
Hi Vince, if you are going to spend some hard earned cash on suspension, both front and rear you really need to get some basic measurements.
Firstly you need to know the actual weight of your bike front and rear while across two scales, then you need to do the same with you on the bike with all your typical gear in the riding position. People miss this step but its important as rider size increases the impact is greater. Once you have this info plus the geometry of the swing-arm / rear shock, wheel base, rack, trail and offset etc. the math can quickly be done and spring rates etc. sorted.
A custom builder like Maxton then will be able to make a set which is matched and have a mid point of adjustment based on your specific bikes measurements. For example: my SFC1000 rears are longer than standard to move weight distribution to the front and there are other changes Richard advised for the forks as part of the geometry calc's, so its a complete solution and worth spending an hour or two getting the data together.
Note, piston diameter is your friend on rear shocks as it helps greatly with fine adjustment. I'm not sure you'll get any benefit apart from the look with a piggyback or remote reservoir version unless your at 1010th's - just my view.
Firstly you need to know the actual weight of your bike front and rear while across two scales, then you need to do the same with you on the bike with all your typical gear in the riding position. People miss this step but its important as rider size increases the impact is greater. Once you have this info plus the geometry of the swing-arm / rear shock, wheel base, rack, trail and offset etc. the math can quickly be done and spring rates etc. sorted.
A custom builder like Maxton then will be able to make a set which is matched and have a mid point of adjustment based on your specific bikes measurements. For example: my SFC1000 rears are longer than standard to move weight distribution to the front and there are other changes Richard advised for the forks as part of the geometry calc's, so its a complete solution and worth spending an hour or two getting the data together.
Note, piston diameter is your friend on rear shocks as it helps greatly with fine adjustment. I'm not sure you'll get any benefit apart from the look with a piggyback or remote reservoir version unless your at 1010th's - just my view.
Dellortoman
Hero member
- Location
- Tasmania, Australia
One set of AJS Jampot shocks coming up.
Today was ride No 1 on the new Nitrons. I promised myself I would not play with the nobs for at least a couple of hundred ks so they bedded in, yer right, no chance of that. They came with the settings at their midpoint so I set the sag and pondered the grub screw question. These shocks only have one preload nut, instead of the 2 I have mostly seen that lock together. What mine has is a 3mm plastic grub screw that goes into the one and only preload pin spanner hole that also has been drilled and taped to allow said grub screw to hit the tread and lock the preload nut. So to get a screwdriver, jewellers type to access this it can only go in from 180 degrees on the nut outside, even less with side bags fitted. So 20ks into this ride it was obvious it needed adjustments. It was pretty hard, so it got 2 clicks off the high-speed compression and 2 clicks harder on the rebound to stop it from kicking off bumps and that made a huge difference as it was much more comfortable on bumps. Heading home I tried 2 clicks softer on slow speed compression and I think that was too soft allowing hard bottoming so I went back to before with that. They really need some ks to losen up but even now there way better than the Icons I had before, my back likes them a lot.
Andy
Hero member
- Location
- Auckland, roughly
Sounds good Vince. Keep playing with them, and remember what you’ve tried. It took me a bit of time to get it to the Goldilocks zone, by purposely going too far in both directions and then making progressively smaller adjustments. I learnt quite a lot about how it all works in the process.
Although I’ve only got one damping setting, so I’m still an amateur. With two dials you’ll be an expert!
Although I’ve only got one damping setting, so I’m still an amateur. With two dials you’ll be an expert!
So today I was zeroing the clickers to check they were the same on both sides and the left top clicker started rotating and not clicking, O shit. I am thinking 2 weeks till Bellingen and what the hell? So I rang the distributor Shocks are Us in Victoria and was told the 3mm grub screw holding the knob on the shaft was probably loose and it was. 30 seconds later it's all good. So now I am looking to find a tube spanner that will fit this adjuster, it's destroying my fingers trying to turn it. Time to load up all the camping crap and set the sag for the Bellingen trip. It's not quite a pillion load but close. Doing Dungog, the roughest road in Oz with loosen the shocks up for sure.
Cosi
Hero member
- Location
- Kingscliff
If they “loosen up” on any sort of road Vince I’d be sending them back,… not how a sealed unit is designed to work
Tippie
Hero member
- Location
- Dr?bak, Norway
I agree. Modern equipment should be as good as it gets straight out of the box.
I get modern engines get made with incredibly correct tolerances, and probably high-end suspension components as well. My first time having custom suspension tuning done was on my 2005 TE 250 Husky and the suspension bloke Terry Hays wanted me to do 3 or 4 day rides first even though I was well outside typical design limits weight-wise. That happened and he then swapped springs and re-valved both ends and then he watched me ride his 100m test track and adjusted the clickers and pushed the forks through 3mm. The difference was amazing, I could sit through stuff that before needed standing and fine throttle technic to do.So I liked the idea of giving it some ks to break in, well that didn't happen, I couldn't help myself fiddling with the clickers and so far it's working out fine. I get the results I am expecting with the changes I have tried. The big test will be Dungog the council area where potholes go to die and add in plenty of camping crap on the bike and it will be interesting. What a shame my bike doesn't have 250mm of travel to use, mmm.
I have been struggling with setting these new shocks up and getting painful experiences and its all down to my half-arses ways of doing things. Setting sag is usually a 2 person's job and I was struggling with getting help SO I have been using the bump stop as a gauge, that works in a ballpark way but in this case, it's WRONG. So for 2 multiday rides, I was getting pounded to putty from what I couldn't tell was either hard bottoming or lately I suspect was hard topping out. I finally got a hand to do an accurate sag setup. Here are the maths for a 3c with vertical. According to the green book, it has 90mm rear travel. Mine has measured with one shock fitted at 95mm. The Nitron manual recommends 25% of travel so that's 23mm, mine using the bump stop by eye was 18mm for the last at least 3500ks of rides. To get it right I took 2 1/2 turns of preload off the spring, that's a massive difference, no bloody wonder my thy bones were trying to push my hips away from my backbone on those destroyed by rain roads. The bike now actually moves up and down. I wonder how long it will take me to recover from this pounding, it's 3 days now and I can still bearly bend. Live and learn.