No spark required

Max still looking in pretty good nick.
Legs said:
The future, if we like it or not.
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It is, but as long as they keep making fuel us dinosaurs can still keep riding on fossil fuels. We’ll be long dead and they’ll still be distilling fuel……. My brother has, as well as his motorcycle collection that includes 2 Laverdas, 2 electric bicycles here in Adelaide, and one he has stored in Stuttgart for when travel restrictions ease, and he swears by them for inner city work. I suspect the future will be a non-binary one where people have a mix of new tech and some old tech, and who knows what hybrid motorcycle tech might evolve into the future for longer haul riding.
 
So Spider's bike will hopefully receive an MOT this week and then I will put it up for sale. I clearly am a slow learner and have agreed to by a Zane rolling chassis. I have most of the body panels and access to those parts that I don't. There are a number of options for it. Put an engine in it, use the parts for other projects or put an electric motor in it. I was intrigued by the last option so have been surfing the net. I knew virtually nothing about electric motorcycles but there is a lot of info out there and plenty of people with projects going on. I still know very little!

There is a lot of development going on and more bikes coming onto the market. Some actually look pretty good. Development of the TT Zero bikes is interesting and is reflected in the lap times around the IOM. Probably mentioned on here before a converted Zane 668 was entered in 2009 TTX GP.

Moving at the pace that I do there is plenty of time to ponder on this.

Spider zane now.jpg
Spider's 668

20220109_105730.jpg
Plenty of space for a motor, battery and management system.

668 IOM 2009.jpg
German entry into TTX GP. The second place in the PRO class was the XXL entry of Thomas Schoenfelder in 29 minutes and 4.93 seconds an average race speed of 77.841 mph. The XXL machine was based on 650 cc Laverda using a 120 hp Siemens motor and an electric regulator from an Audi hybrid car. It had a top speed of 106.5 mph.

The Formula 750S produces 92 HP/68.6 KW @ 7500 rpm max power and 60.4 ft lbs / 82NM @ 6500 rpm max torque.

How about this to do away with Zane engine issues: Emrax 228 spec

Mechanical
Type:Axial flux motor / generator
Casing diameter:228 mm
Axial length:86 mm
Dry mass:12,0 kg (AC) / 12,3 kg (CC) / 12,4 kg (LC)
Stator cooling:air (IP21) / combined (IP21) / liquid (IP65)
Mounting:Front: 6x M6 threaded holes
Back: 8x M6 threaded holes
Stacking:Two motors can be stacked together to achieve doubled power / torque. For more info click here.
Electrical
Maximal battery voltage:680 (HV) / 500 (MV) / 160 Vdc (LV)
Peak power
(at 6500 RPM):		109 kW
Continuous power*:up to 62 kW
Peak torque:230 Nm
Continuous torque*:up to 120 Nm
Efficiency:92-98%
 
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DaveB said:
Max still looking in pretty good nick.

It is, but as long as they keep making fuel us dinosaurs can still keep riding on fossil fuels. We’ll be long dead and they’ll still be distilling fuel……. My brother has, as well as his motorcycle collection that includes 2 Laverdas, 2 electric bicycles here in Adelaide, and one he has stored in Stuttgart for when travel restrictions ease, and he swears by them for inner city work. I suspect the future will be a non-binary one where people have a mix of new tech and some old tech, and who knows what hybrid motorcycle tech might evolve into the future for longer haul riding.
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It's progressively closing down.
There's already people out there who've been chasing leaded petrol for 20 years, which means that they haven't been venturing far from home; now, bis repetita, some are having the big ethanol scare so a lot of people will not ride much for fear of damaging their pride and joy.
It won't be so very long before we'll be seeing plenty of Laverdas for the annual pioneer run to Brighton with their yearly allocation of twenty litres, 100 octane lead substitute fuel.

Paul
 
When will re-charging an EV (bike or car) be as simple and straightforward as filling up with petrol , apart from the time element of course?
There seems to be so much variance in types of charger,charging rates,methods of payment,stories of charge points out of action etc.
If I could pull into a charge point safe in the knowledge that there would none of the above issues or that of vehicle/charger compatability then I could maybe become sort of half interested.
As far as new petrol motorcycles are concerned by the time we reach the final evolution of the type in 2030/5 and whatever Euro 7 or 8 regulation is in place by then,not to mention TC,ABS,slipper clutches and quickshifters and so on which have turned modern bikes into virtual automatics , the difference in riding experience between a petrol powered bike and an electric one will be virtually zero (sic) anyway.
Millions of petrol vehicles are not going to disappear overnight,so petrol in some form or other will still be available for some time to come,
biggest problems for us in this new silent world be be that of noise emmisions . not just for Laverdas , but anyone who is still riding around on open or race exhausts may as well have a patch on the back of their jackets saying "c`mon then,ban me now"
Talk about being easy targets for the Euro-law makers....
 
rocketonarail said:
As far as new petrol motorcycles are concerned by the time we reach the final evolution of the type in 2030/5 and whatever Euro 7 or 8 regulation is in place by then,not to mention TC,ABS,slipper clutches and quickshifters and so on which have turned modern bikes into virtual automatics , the difference in riding experience between a petrol powered bike and an electric one will be virtually zero (sic) anyway.
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Are you talking about grand prix bikes?
They'll all be electric by 2035 anyway.

Paul
 
Paul Marx said:
Are you talking about grand prix bikes?
They'll all be electric by 2035 anyway.

Paul
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No what I mean is that UK goverment intends to ban all sale of new petrol cars by 2030 , bikes included but maybe 2035 in their case.
Petrol vehicles already on the road will be able to continue as before.
Many other countries will probably,or already have plans to do the same so bike manufacturers will almost certainly have withdrawn petrol bikes from their model ranges by then.(BTW Yamahas electric bike engine comes with what suspiciously looks like a oil filler cap and spin off oil filter,an electric motor with some sort of gear transmission maybe ? , or maybe just to keep it cool-ref.spontaneously combusting Teslas). ******
The big bike market is tiny compared to world wide bike sales anyway (which will increasingly be electric small bikes and scooters) so any contraction in the big petrol bike market would make any future development of new models economically unviable .
My point was that any petrol bikes that do remain available to buy in the early 2030`s will have become so emasculated by increasingly stringent emissions and rider safety regulations that for all the difference there is you may as well be riding an electric bike anyway.

****** Yes , Yamahas 350 KW motor , which looks the most suitable for installing in a motorcycle , due to it`s extremely compact size is definitely oil cooled,hence the filter.
One of these installed in a motorcycle would produce the equivalent of 470 bhp , although only available in short bursts , continued use of power of this scale would see a gradual fall off in performance and decimate battery range . Obviously battery capacity is limited on a bike compared to a car due to space available , although in automotive use one could be fitted directly to each wheel to give a combined output equivalent of nearly 1900 bhp , which I believe Yamaha have already done , although there would I guess be a weight penalty compared to a similar sized petrol car.
 
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The problem will be when petrol stations are not viable- you can already get petrol delivered in a drum to your house but that’s only going to take you on a tankful. Airfields will still need petrol for a while yet so they will need bulk delivery - will they be willing to supply the odd old banger?Probably not. Call me a sceptic but when they made vehicles over thirty years road fun licence free I wonder if it was a stick to hit us with - you don’t pay tax, you are not included in new road system. I think it would be very easy to legislate old vehicles out of everyday use, now they are historic vehicles they may be sidelined for limited mileage/ shows/ trackways.
Our only hope is the Goodwood brigade- the wealthy classic car owning mob who keep the petrol flag flying and also multi million pounds worth of business to UK economy- there doesn’t seem to be any motorcycle organisation that has any clout . Strange thing is the price of classics is still rising and we seem to be importing containers full of bangers that need restorations lasting years. Who knows the future for real motorcycles but don’t be fooled into thinking the E car thing is going to stop any time soon- I think the Electric / Fossil vehicle ratio will flip overnight well before the proposed deadlines.
On a more selfish note I think UK and US are the least likely to ban fuel vehicles whereas Germany/ Scandinavian countries are more likely to ban overnight.
 
There is a motorcycle group that has some clout , in the UK at least-join the Motorcycle Action Group (MAG) , they have representation on the various government committtees which decide transport policy , there are members of Transport for London as well as Members of Parliament who are also MAG members.
 
While the transition to electric vehicles will take some time and happen over many years, I would predict, the issue for us old guys with Laverdas could be availability of gas where you need it, when you need it. Here in western Canada with the demise of the family farm replaced by mega farms many small towns and their gas stations have disappeared and continue to do so. So with a Laverda which has a range 200 or 250km km or so, you have to plan your trip on the back roads carefully. Takes some of the fun out of the freedom of riding. Could happen in other less populated regions as demand for gas declines. Good news/bad news.....maybe not so much in our lifetimes.....
 
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Petrol stations are sometimes rare in some parts of France as well. Route planning needs to take that into account.
Concerning the electric/fossil vehicle ratio on the roads, I should think that in France, in 5 years, it'll be in favour of all electric. More and more of them about.

Paul
 
I'd be surprised if France has has its petrol stations more widely distributed than Canada or Australia.
Availability of fuel is part of any route planning when you venture away from main population centres in Australia. I've had to carry extra fuel on occasions to make it to the next available fuel stop.
 
My sister who has ZERO interest in anything remotely Motorsport has jumped wholeheartedly into Electric cars or will for her next one. And that's 100% fine in her case, she never goes more than 50ks from her home generally and if she did she would use hubby's car. This discussion happened at Christmas, I had just watched Guy Martins Worlds Fastest Electric car and suggested she do as well. I might as well have suggested she watch Hard Core Porn. Who is Guy Martin and why would I watch this show about racing. Even when I told her there was a comprehensive look at real-world practical use of electric vehicles I got a blank stare. Electric vehicles in my case are way too expensive, have crap range and don't suit my needs, they do tick my sister's boxes even if she has no interest in the how and why.
 
Dellortoman said:
I'd be surprised if France has has its petrol stations more widely distributed than Canada or Australia.
Availability of fuel is part of any route planning when you venture away from main population centres in Australia. I've had to carry extra fuel on occasions to make it to the next available fuel stop.
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Enough for a tankful without seeing a petrol station. Meaning you need to leave your planned route to find petrol.

Paul
 
rocketonarail said:
There is a motorcycle group that has some clout , in the UK at least-join the Motorcycle Action Group (MAG) , they have representation on the various government committtees which decide transport policy , there are members of Transport for London as well as Members of Parliament who are also MAG members.
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They have the political clout but very little financial clout. The value of the “goodwood” crowd is they definitely have the financial clout in terms of the value of the classic car business and the people who invest in it. There were 36 Ferrari 250 GTs built and each have an estimated price of £20 million plus which is probable more than all the classic bikes in the world. Richard (card carrying cynic)
 
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