Odyssey..a remarkable journey ! But never on Sunday

Paul Marx said:
I have an Odyseey in both an SF2 and an SFC.
The SFC fired up after a two year layoff without charging.

Have heard from Brit bike fans that Odyssey isn't suited to their machines.

ciao
Paul
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Thank U Paul...

I'm going to check the output  of my generator in volts/watts and then refer to Odyssey information. I don't doubt the lay off capability of the Odyssey...

My bike fired up first stab of the button on Sunday Evening..10 miles later it was as dead as a dodo....and now won't take charge from the Ctek charger.

All will be revealed soon methinks ; )

cheers

joe

kind regards,

Joe
 
laverdakeith said:
Had the same Odyssey in my RGS for around nine years, so I'm not convinced it is a fragility issue.

You need to asses your charging system Joe, for both charging voltage and charging current, according to the technical data supplied with the battery you need at least 40 amps of charging current to fully charge a PC680, there is a note in the battery manual which states "If your V-Twin motorcycle is equipped with a standard 32amp single phase stator/alternator, the appropriate ODYSSEY battery may run out of charge after about 150 miles of riding" not sure the original Laverda set up is going to mannage 40Amps..... could be that without an uprated alternator an Odyssey is not suitable.

  Keith.
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The voltage doesn't exceed 14.1 volts even at high revs
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Joe - there's your clue!  If your voltmeter is accurate (many aren't), this is insufficient to top out the charging of an Odyssey or indeed any lead acid battery.  Generally a minimum of 14.2v is required to charge through the absorption phase and I would expect the regulator to provide at least that, and ideally 14.5v.  Odyssey recommend a max 14.7v, followed by 6-8 hours on float to achieve full charge.    The state of charge of an Odyssey is accurately indicated by the open circuit terminal voltage (i.e. nothing connected to battery) - 12.84v is fully charged at 25 deg C; 12.5v is 75% charged, assuming the battery iasn't toast.

For info, the '80 Jota has a 140w alternator (~ 11 amps output) and the BTZ ignition will swallow a chunk of that - never measured it but say 60w / 5 amps.

3 Odysseys in such a short space of time suggests something is amiss with alternator and/or reg/rectifier operation/wiring.  Another thought - have you checked to see if there is any standing load on the battery with everything turned off?

Good luck with your investigations
 
Joe, I'm losing track of where we are...are you now on the Varta lead acid battery and if so is this the one which has just failed?
 
I've had 3 Odyssey's over the last 10 years for my 2 laverdas. Current one is in the sfc as the 1200 is off the road. The sfc gets ridden only a couple of times a year and the battery cranks it over easy.
It was struggling to crank the 1200 over just before I took it off the road. Have since brought a Deka 14 for when the 1200 fires up later in the year. Have always charged the odyssey with my run of the mill charger. I'd buy another if they weren't so damn expensive now compared to the Deka.
 
bob said:
Joe, I'm losing track of where we are...are you now on the Varta lead acid battery and if so is this the one which has just failed?
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Hi Bob,

I've just bought the Varta. It isn't on the bike yet. When it is I'll test the alternator again...

It was the Odyssey that failed.

cheers

joe
 
Brad said:
The voltage doesn't exceed 14.1 volts even at high revs
Click to expand...

Joe - there's your clue!  If your voltmeter is accurate (many aren't), this is insufficient to top out the charging of an Odyssey or indeed any lead acid battery.  Generally a minimum of 14.2v is required to charge through the absorption phase and I would expect the regulator to provide at least that, and ideally 14.5v.  Odyssey recommend a max 14.7v, followed by 6-8 hours on float to achieve full charge.    The state of charge of an Odyssey is accurately indicated by the open circuit terminal voltage (i.e. nothing connected to battery) - 12.84v is fully charged at 25 deg C; 12.5v is 75% charged, assuming the battery iasn't toast.

For info, the '80 Jota has a 140w alternator (~ 11 amps output) and the BTZ ignition will swallow a chunk of that - never measured it but say 60w / 5 amps.

3 Odysseys in such a short space of time suggests something is amiss with alternator and/or reg/rectifier operation/wiring.  Another thought - have you checked to see if there is any standing load on the battery with everything turned off?

Good luck with your investigations
Click to expand...

Hi Brad,

I've only done a quick check when I got the bike back home from it's breakdown. I don't like over revving the bike I mean up in the redline zone especially when it's only done a mile..

My objective is to test the charging system and see what's watt ; ) . Only then can I decide if work needs to be done to my electrical system or if I just need to concede that the Odyssey is not compatible with the Jota.

Incidentally, I have heard other of other Forum member who had same/ similar problem with a new Odyssey battery.

Taking a great big overview of the whole situation..Considering the battery was charged on Sunday using the recommended Ctek charger, it only took charge for 3 minutes and then indicated fully charged, the battery was used to start once which it did with spectacular ease and the bike was ridden for 10 miles, the battery then failed completely cutting the bikes ignition.

Lets suppose my charging system is below par for the battery..why would that kill a battery which is advertised as being particularly immune to " Catastrophic failure "  compared to conventional lead acid batteries ?

I have never had an old below par lead acid battery on my bikes drop so severely on the road so as cut the bike's ignition..and neither has anybody i know...and I have asked !!! I have had them reluctant to crank on a cold morning but never shut the whole bike down while rolling along...and then the battery is totally and completely knackered.

Over the next couple of days I'll do a full test of voltage output from the regulator at 2500 rpm and at approx 7000 rpm. I'll also carry out an alternator check for amp readout..

cheers

joe
 
Grant said:
Dead short somewhere?
Unlikely but possible.
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Hi Grant,

Nope ..as soon as I attached a spare battery she starts, fires and runs...

I'll do some proper tests over the nxt couple of days.

It's a shame cuz I liked the way the Odyssey cranked the engine with such gusto !

atb ,

joe

 
This is a post from a forum member not so long ago...Hmmmmm ::)


odyssey batteries
? on: February 06, 2010, 19:14 ?

Now on my second odyssey in two weeks if not for Tim would still have been trying to find fault with bike,chap changed the first one now i have to take the second one back,Tims is a 3 year old battery and bike runs fine modle of battery is 680 anyone come across or heard of a bad batch,hand you over to mike starr to give tec details.
Hi all! We've had 2 Odyssey 680's now that won't hold a charge. According to the tech spec the battery Tim lent us (Odyssey 625) does not have as much cranking power as the 680 yet spins the motor fine,holds a charge and recovers to 12.9 volts. Both 680's only recover to 12.3, which equates to 60% charge capacity. Bikes charging system checks out and we can't detect any current drain through the wiring. Has anyone had any experience and/or problems with these batteries. Need to get to the bottom of this as the bike is due to go to France on the 19th Feb in preparation for the endurance race at Spa Francorchamps ridden, and hopefully not blown up!! by the French contingent...

Cheers Rufus T & Mike Starr
 
My odyssey stuffed itself after a very short period of time. I dont give a hoot what's in the bike so long as it starts, years of bumping off my 3C gave me that attitude. As far as I am concerned there is a problem with these batteries that no one has explained and dont give me the old made in China excuse. I wont buy another so that's another lost customer.
 
Not too difficult to explain Pat, the original alternator can not provide the required charging current. Had a bit of a look at this today, the charging requirements are clearly written in the instructions so I suppose the onus is on the end user to check for suitability. That's not a problem with the battery its a problem with the bike. They are tick tock on the later three phase bikes. It is a shame as they are a very good product, the wholesaler I buy them from is also aware of fake Chinky copies circulating.


  Keith.
 
jotajoe said:
I have never had an old below par lead acid battery on my bikes drop so severely on the road so as cut the bike's ignition..and neither has anybody i know...and I have asked !!! I have had them reluctant to crank on a cold morning but never shut the whole bike down while rolling along...and then the battery is totally and completely knackered.
Click to expand...

I've had a lead acid battery do that to me, 15 or so years ago - rolling long the A80 on my CB900 there was a slight misfire then it just died, no engine, lights or anything. Fortunately it was the westbound downhill section just past Old Inns in Cumbernauld so I was able to coast down to the layby, walk back to the petrol station & call a mate with a multi-meter.
I assumed, as you would, that it was a wiring fault but no, battery was completely goosed, it showed about 4 volts and the bike started without hesitation when we connected the battery out of my mates bike. It was a Varta, about 6 months old. Hadn't given me any problems before that.
 
Hi all,
Not to interfere on this discussion, but I have had a Tecno AGM battery for some years now, runs perfect. It's on a SFC1000. My friends Tecno is just fine on his 1200TS too.
But I will say that another friends Odyssey pc680 will start some bikes (Laverda's, and not other bikes (also Laverda's). The bike it normally sit's in, won't start very well. Mechanical the bike is top notch. Have to help push all the time.

But I just bought a Shorai LiFe battery. The idea is that it delivers a higher voltage than any other type (around 2 Volt). And it can start a bike from around 60 percent charge, more or less.
Very light and small too. only 996 grams and in a fully closed carbon fiber box.
So there is some development in batteries still.

Cheers,
Jacques.
 
laverdakeith said:
Not too difficult to explain Pat, the original alternator can not provide the required charging current. Had a bit of a look at this today, the charging requirements are clearly written in the instructions so I suppose the onus is on the end user to check for suitability. That's not a problem with the battery its a problem with the bike. They are tick tock on the later three phase bikes. It is a shame as they are a very good product, the wholesaler I buy them from is also aware of fake Chinky copies circulating.


   Keith.
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Well at least that's cleared that up then Keith, if you've got the earlier triples then an oddysey battery is a waste of cash.
I still dont understand the sudden failure rather than gradual demise though.
Years ago I fitted an Exide Torquestart car battery to my 3C (had to cut the terminals down) and never needed to bump it off again. I think that was gel filled if I remember correctly.
 
Joe, has your Odyssey supplier offered any opinion or explanation as to what they think might be happening? It would be very interesting to get to the bottom of the problem.

Keith and Brad have suggested that the bike's charging system is not up to par. That's quite a reasonable conclusion to make, but it doesn't explain why the bike works OK with a different (wet cell lead-acid) battery.

The main difference between a flooded cell (wet) battery and Odyssey's AGM technology is structural rather than electro-chemical. The battery chemistry is exactly the same, so I don't know why an Odyssey battery would be any less compatible with a Laverda charging system than any other lead-acid battery.

Please let us know if the Odyssey guys have anything to say about it.

Cheers,
Cam
 
Dellortoman said:
Joe, has your Odyssey supplier offered any opinion or explanation as to what they think might be happening? It would be very interesting to get to the bottom of the problem.

Keith and Brad have suggested that the bike's charging system is not up to par. That's quite a reasonable conclusion to make, but it doesn't explain why the bike works OK with a different (wet cell lead-acid) battery.

The main difference between a flooded cell (wet) battery and Odyssey's AGM technology is structural rather than electro-chemical. The battery chemistry is exactly the same, so I don't know why an Odyssey battery would be any less compatible with a Laverda charging system than any other lead-acid battery.

Please let us know if the Odyssey guys have anything to say about it.





Hi Cam,

Well, I have the new Varta lead acid battery on charge and during the next few days I'll take the bike to a technician for a third party assessment of the charging system.


I didn't get a report from Odyssey on the previous failures.

I'll just clip the report to the battery and send it back and await comments..

cheers

joe
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3patC said:
laverdakeith said:
Not too difficult to explain Pat, the original alternator can not provide the required charging current. Had a bit of a look at this today, the charging requirements are clearly written in the instructions so I suppose the onus is on the end user to check for suitability. That's not a problem with the battery its a problem with the bike. They are tick tock on the later three phase bikes. It is a shame as they are a very good product, the wholesaler I buy them from is also aware of fake Chinky copies circulating.


   Keith.
Click to expand...

Well at least that's cleared that up then Keith, if you've got the earlier triples then an oddysey battery is a waste of cash.



Hi Keith,

I'm not positive as to the actual cause yet but, In consumer law the onus is not on the purchaser the onus is on the supplier to supply a product which is fit for purpose.My requirement in the contract was to pay the money over ...which I did... I didn't contact the sellers and ask for an Odyssey..They contacted me with an email flyer and then recommended the PC680 for my model bike. If it transpires that my bike is is fact operating correctly but there is some in-compatibility with the Odyssey then the onus is on them not moi !

If my bike is causing a power spike through a fault of some sort than that's different.


but,......

Point of interest..I spoke to two battery suppliers today/yesterday each with over 30 years in the battery trade. They had never heard of a new battery cutting whilst a vehicle was on the move and stopping the ignition from working . Once I had a complete alternator failure on an old car with an old battery..The lights just got dimmer and dimmer ..even with complete failure of the charging system the car didn't stop dead.

Whether there is a fault with my bike or not..I am not keen to be fitting a battery which could potentially leave a rider in a heap at the roadside very, very easily.

atb

joe
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Hi all,
Slightly different angle!
Couple of years ago had a couple of odyssey batteries fail.The first one was approx 18 months old,and the bike (my Monty racer) would not run without mis-firing.Identified the battery was at fault and therefore put a new battery in,which lucky I was carrying for such an event.This battery was the same type model as previous one and had only been bought weeks before with just a 5min run on the bike previous.This gave the same fault!!!!!!.Swopped over iginition modules etc etc- no joy
Cut a long story short ,back home,fitted some new Dyna coils because it had been the only item not changed or swopped.Same misfiring problems.
Connected a old battery(lead acid),that had been sitting around for ages -bingo ran fine.

My conclusion - Vibration killed the batteries even thought there built to Military spec and supposingly can handle vibration.
Make sure your Odyssey  is well isolated otherwise I feel it will fail sooner rather then later.


For me it runied a weekend at Cadwell,
Andy
 
Odyssey batteries are good kit. Absolutely trouble free in my SF1 and BMW R1100S as well as other bikes. And I use "smart" Optimate type chargers.

I think there's something about earlier 180s that kills batteries. Whether it be inadequate charging, vibration, or a combination of the two.

I could never get *any* sort of battery to last long in my old Series 1 Mirage. Drove me crazy. Failures were generally a total failure of a single cell, leading to the inevitable drop in voltage.

Like a previous poster with a 3CL, I just got used to bump starting it.

 
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