Paris terrorist attacks

henry said:
you are quite wrong davo

the 'dark ages were the direct result of the arab invasions west of n. africa and the iberian peninsular and s. france and east into what is now israel, jordan, iraq, syria, iran, afghanistan and up into central asia. these conquests completely cut europe off from the rest of the world with which it had traded both goods and ideas, especially asia.
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Wrong Henry. It began earlier with the collapse of the Roman empire. Islamification of the Iberian peninsular came much later and did not effect any of northern eurupe or what is now the United Kingdom
 
Yawn .... this could go on until the next ice age ................. I'm a tad over it and will just ignore it before it escalates into WW3. I'm over it.

I will just say, on closing: It's not right to shoot someone dead, because their belief is different to yours.
 
I think it is not about religion it is about money wraped in religion paper.

It is not only yong and poor muslims , Osam Bin Laden was welthy man , scoold for terorisam by who ? , ISLI foces are trained and given wepens by who?.

Yugoslavia had many but things , but some also good . For example foregin citisens could not have real estate in Yugoslavia and foregin companies could not invest in Yugoslavia , everithing was owned by state or citizens.

Today we have "democracy" two paries changing on power , one is bad and onether iven worst most members ex comunist.
Around 4000000 population , 350000 unemployd , many working but dont become sallaries on end of month and so for 1 - 3 years . None of the Banks is croatian ( Italian , Austrian , Franch ... ) , they have sold out everithing .
Yugoslavia have hed 18 milard US$ depth 1/6 of that was Croatian depth , today only Croatia have 65 milard US$ depth to foregin banks or International Monetary Found . Everithing of value is sold to international company , this what is not sold it is going to be sold very soon .
In last few years almost 500000 young educated pepels are gone to work everiwhere thru world , they would newer return .
My sons are going in seamans shool , one thing is tradition and more important once they finsh university they would work on world market and not croatian .
Yestrday hell broke losse , we have domestic curency but when you take credit it is fixed to  Euro or Swisse Frank , so yestrday Swiss Frank goes up 18% , many ere loosing their houses now.

And yes general population could go on streets anitime , we are all wondering what are they waiting for.

Since we have democracy we have Mc Donald too , bigest joke is in few cites they went bancrupt becouse nobady want to eat this shit .
 
DoC! said:
Hi Lothar,

I haven't even bothered to check, but how many of the countries you mention above are so called '1st World'  :o

Give us all a break would you!

Cheers

DoC!
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re-read my words, please. I said that USA is leading if you only compare 1st World countries (this would be without the 5 mentioned after that). Then I said: even if you count ALL in the list (not differentiating between first world and 3rd world countries or anything in between), they are even on place 6.
 
henry said:
the so called gospels you are talking about are all fake and have no substance.
of course there was a selection process, which was, is this God inspired?

the pentateuch or torah was written by moses. certainly from that time on there were no changes due to the way the scribes copied the scrolls using a numerical value for each letter, sub totaling each line and making a final total for the scroll. this had to match exactly the one being copied. if at any stage it didn't the new one was destroyed and they started again.
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Henry, I know you are deep into these things, but have you actually read them or are you trusting on what you are told? Have been to the archives of the roman church in the vatican and have read them? Why is the vatican keeping the from public if its so easy to prove them fake?
 
OK. My char keow teow (extra hot) has just arrived and the beer fridge tells me the Corona is cold. I'm outa here. I gave religion the flick in my early teens and I reckon I have had more than enough now to top me up for the rest of my life.

 
It's all too easy to get caught up in all these discussions, but may I humbly say a few Words, with out the intention of casting my view on to any of you good people.
I absolutely dissociate myself from people who harm other people. No matter if they claim that they "belong" to something religious or a certain state/country, group, society or not.
There is simply no excuse.
Religions have been misused as long as they existed, by people to manipulate others or gain power or whatever.
To me, there's a very big difference between what a person believes in, and someone who tells someone else to do this and that.
I have the deepest respect for a person who is using his or her free will to pray to God, and not involving others. To me, it's a highly personal thing, not involving other people or beliefsystems.
The most nice people I've ever met, were deeply religious, and they were so deeply in contrast to all those who claim they are, (or whose belief is money) by being Humble, non-violent and only ever doing and wishing good to everyone else on this planet.
I've met a few of those few people all over the planet, whereever I've been.
It may well be the case, that those who claim they are this or that, are absolutely not that, what they claim to be.
What I believe in, I'll keep to myself.
May your God be with you, said Dave Allen.

Cheers,
Jacques.
 
Laverdalothar said:
Henry, I know you are deep into these things, but have you actually read them or are you trusting on what you are told? Have been to the archives of the roman church in the vatican and have read them? Why is the vatican keeping the from public if its so easy to prove them fake?
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i couldn't care less what the vatican has in it's vaults, nor the fact that the bones (relics) of some 16 of the 11 apostles are in spain, never mind all those in italy etc.

i have studied these things and can honestly say i know a little bit about it - not everything by any means, but a little.
 
Davo said:
Wrong Henry. It began earlier with the collapse of the Roman empire. Islamification of the Iberian peninsular came much later and did not effect any of northern eurupe or what is now the United Kingdom
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actually, davo, it never happened, not in eurupe nor in britain. there was no such thing as a 'dark age', things were different, yes, but there was no descent into a primative culture. the civil wars of rome were dark times, but not the herald of any 'dark age'. the romans abandoned britain early in the 5th century and the anglo-saxons arrived shortly after and began to populate the country. the stuff we were all told at school about them butchering the british (celts) has been proven to be completely incorrect through archaeological investigation. there is absolutely no evidence of this to be found anywhere, no burnt towns or villages not any mass graves, nothing. so the anglo-saxons assimilated with the celts who were gaelic speaking in the north and n. midlands and latin speaking in the s. midlands and the south. this last may explain why there is a small latin influence in anglo-saxon which is not found in german saxon of the same period.

the germanic invasions of western europe such as by the franks led to the establishment of an empire of considerable size in what is now france and the west of germany and belguim and southern holland. the visigoths pushed on down through spain and even into north africa and some germanic peoples moved into italy.

the idea that these germanic peoples were all illiterate murderers, pillagers and rapists (which the vikings probably were) who introduced an age of uncivilised ignorance is utter nonsense. they were proficient in the arts of all kinds - take a quick look at anglo-saxon jewelry, it's absolutely stunningly beautiful - construction and weapons manufacture. development did not stop because rome fell, effectively,by the late 5th century, it was done for . so, so far no 'dark age'.

these regions continued to prosper, but as smaller nation units, often in conflict with each other (even this did not create a 'dark age although it was sometimes pretty bad, but it was localised, not universal), but there was no central authority anymore as an umbrella. wealth levels may have dropped so there would be less demand for some things, but there was plenty of trade (albeit at a horse's pace) all over europe and the anglo-saxons certainly imported precious and semi precious stones from the middle east/black sea (so probably through the e. roman empire - later byzantium)

the arab conquests started in 620 AD about 140 years after the end of rome (so not big a gap) and went on in europe until they were brought to an abrupt end by charles martell (the inventor of fine brandy) at the battle of poitiers in 720. the arabs were tossed back over the pyrenees fairly quickly, but it wasn't until 1492 that their last bastion in spain was defeated and they left. as i said, these cut europe off from asia, it's produce and its philosophy and thought, but this also did not cause some giant leap backwards and although it may well initially have caused a slowdown in some areas, it picked up again. europeans always knew asia was there and wanted to trade with it and ultimately they developed the technology (robust sailing vessels) to get them past the arabs and this restored matters. yes, it took a long time, but once europe could trade it learned to do it better and better, ie better ships, bigger companies, more money - the latter is the main driver of development and improvement and europe made plenty of it. the rest is well known history.

At no time was there any great backward jump in europe. it was just cut off from eastern philosophical ideas and thought which had previously traveled with traders and their goods, but which now never got to europe. this lack of contact affected all of europe including the north. don't forget, scholars traveled all over europe, the church being the main motivator of education and medicine at this time.

don't believe those who say that there was some sort of 'dark age'. war in europe and even in england caused great destruction and damage to written records, but that does not mean that civilisation regressed. archaeology has been exposing this idea of a 'dark age' as untrue for a considerable time and it continues to do so.

 
I thought the 'Dark Ages' referred to the lack of recorded history.
Yes they could still bash metal into jewellery but for whatever reason little was recorded for posterity.
 
Croat and Viking libarated Siciliy from arabs under Barbarossa his grave is in Palermo chatedral ( bdw he was german ), and most part of sothern italy too .
500 years border between europe and otoman empire was as today border between Croatia and Bosnia is , 500 years of constant smaler or biger wars .
This year we celbrate batlle of SINJ when smal number of croatian knights won against huge otoman army , chek on you tube Sinjska Alka .
On the other hand permanet figthing with Venice ( when it was state ) becouse they wanted our side of adriatic , it was much safer for sailing ships back then for their trade with turky .
Another thing what Venice alweys wanted was to concer Zadar and Dubrovnik , soldiers as they were they was not capable of doing this .
Then Crussaders came to Venice, they spend all money there on vine and hookers and could not pay for transport to holly land .
So in exchange for transport to holly land  they have to concer Zadar and Dubrovnik , on walls of Zadar was Vatikan flag this did not help too , they have concered Zadar but did not menage to do same with Dubrovnik .
Many sea batels too .

Oh and napoleon personal guard ware croats , this is wher cravat came from . Napoleos have sed " give me 10000 croats and i will concer whole world ".
 
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