Real ( once upon a time ) , or not ?

rocketonarail

rocketonarail

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Location
Gloucestershire,England
Following on from the Executive / Formula auction posting .... Here is the Formula 750S on UK Ebay I was on about .... ( at £6 grand , not six and a half ) .

I thought it looked great , but I know very little about all the Zane ins and outs ..... But apparently it is not all it seems ..... See the YouTube comments .......

( Although she had me convinced ..... ) ........ :) ............

What do our Zanisti reckon ?

 
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The local dealer at the time sold all his stock to the Belgian importer. The French importer couldn't get rid of them at near half price.
I think that a lot of them stayed unsold in Belgium.
Paul
 
rocketonarail said:
Following on from the Executive / Formula auction posting .... Here is the Formula 750S on UK Ebay I was on about .... ( at £6 grand , not six and a half ) .

I thought it looked great , but I know very little about all the Zane ins and outs ..... But apparently it is not all it seems ..... See the YouTube comments .......

( Although she had me convinced ..... ) ........ :) ............

What do our Zanisti reckon ?

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Buy it and find out... :ROFLMAO:

There's been more than enough written over them to help make up your mind. They're a nice toy if you've got cash to burn.

Personally, I wouldn't touch one with a barge pole, got enough problems without having to buy myself more.:rolleyes:

piet
 
Comments on YouTube say it`s got standard 750S front forks ....... and that that many parts had been swapped out ....... and that it`s a 750S that`s been given a Formula makeover ......

However it apparently originated , or was registered , as a Formula ......... It`s an Italian import , by the way ........... and still in one piece after 10,000 miles so it seems ......... so it`s about to better the life expectancy of a new 750 Bonneville I had back in `76 ...........

I`m more interested in why some people think it`s not to original Formula spec .......... looks like every things correct and in the right place to me ,...... but then I`m no expert ..........

Wouldn`t mind one actually , especially in the orange / silver .......... One of the best looking Laverdas in my opinion ........ and I find it`s apparent reputation as the Charlie Sheene of the Laverda family strangely appealing ........

I`m not going to buy it ....... ( no money , no space ) ......... but if I did I would use it , and if it broke do my best to get it fixed , I guess ............. no different from anything else really ..............


PS .... Looking at the ad again , it is described as a " run out model " .... which may explain it`s ( alleged ) lack of Formula specific parts ...... In other words , just grab and fit whatever`s available to finish the thing off ........ ( maybe ) .............
 
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I know that the first 668 Formula had WP suspension, so can't see why the 750 would have Paioli. I've always wanted to get one and fit a better motor - there are so many excellent lightweight counterbalanced twin motors out there these days I can see no point in pouring cash into the Laverda time bomb. I've ridden a 668 and was incredibly impressed with the handling - chassis ands suspenders absolutely on the money. A Yamaha or Beemer 850-ish modern donk and you'd have the perfect lightweight.
 
piranha-bro2 said:
I know that the first 668 Formula had WP suspension, so can't see why the 750 would have Paioli. I've always wanted to get one and fit a better motor - there are so many excellent lightweight counterbalanced twin motors out there these days I can see no point in pouring cash into the Laverda time bomb. I've ridden a 668 and was incredibly impressed with the handling - chassis ands suspenders absolutely on the money. A Yamaha or Beemer 850-ish modern donk and you'd have the perfect lightweight.
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I'm with you, Q. Many powerful, reliable vertical twins would, with a bit of work, fit into the 750S formula configuration. It makes more economic sense than throwing $$ at the original Laverda motor.
 
There are options, but maybe not for everybody. The first winner of the Electric TT on The Island used a Zane chassis, if I remember right, another odd one used a 2-stroke snowmobile engine.
 
piranha-bro2 said:
I know that the first 668 Formula had WP suspension, so can't see why the 750 would have Paioli. I've always wanted to get one and fit a better motor - there are so many excellent lightweight counterbalanced twin motors out there these days I can see no point in pouring cash into the Laverda time bomb. I've ridden a 668 and was incredibly impressed with the handling - chassis ands suspenders absolutely on the money. A Yamaha or Beemer 850-ish modern donk and you'd have the perfect lightweight.
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This probably isn't what you had in mind:

The Norton Ala’Verda: Norton and Laverda Hybrid - Motorcycle Classics

I’d wager many of us daydream about building a special custom motorcycle of some kind, combining bits and pieces of favorite bikes into something uniquely our own. Something like Delfour’s combination of a Norton and a Laverda that he calls a "Norton Ala’Verda."
www.motorcycleclassics.com
 
KTM twin, BM 850, Yamaha TRX or MT07 or similar, maybe even a Suzuki SV650 ... the chassis could handle more power, but important to keep weight down.
 
rocketonarail said:
Following on from the Executive / Formula auction posting .... Here is the Formula 750S on UK Ebay I was on about .... ( at £6 grand , not six and a half ) .

I thought it looked great , but I know very little about all the Zane ins and outs ..... But apparently it is not all it seems ..... See the YouTube comments .......

( Although she had me convinced ..... ) ........ :) ............

What do our Zanisti reckon ?

Click to expand...
AFAIK, all Formulas had a polished frame. That together with no carbon cans and some other stuff makes me question if it is a "real" Formula or more like a replica.

If you are in business for a REAL Formula and even one of the last (maybe 50?) ever built with the upgraded engine and the 5-spoke rims: I have one for sale not much above this price. Own it since around 20 years, all standard issues fixed. runs sweet and handles great and has even some history on it as it was featured in a bike magazine 2000.
 
Laverdalothar said:
AFAIK, all Formulas had a polished frame. That together with no carbon cans and some other stuff makes me question if it is a "real" Formula or more like a replica.

If you are in business for a REAL Formula and even one of the last (maybe 50?) ever built with the upgraded engine and the 5-spoke rims: I have one for sale not much above this price. Own it since around 20 years, all standard issues fixed. runs sweet and handles great and has even some history on it as it was featured in a bike magazine 2000.
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Thanks Lothar , but at the moment financial and storage space considerations take precedent .......

Thanks again though

Tony
 
I have proved that the 800 Rotax ex BMW fits very nicely, it is possible to keep the crank centre line the same as the Zane engine for and aft and up and down, and also the gearbox sprocket centre as well (= good results, unlike a Norvin) the Rotax has roughly double the hosrepowewr and double the torque, at similar RPM, even the gearbox sprocket (not all are belt drive and theres an Aussie conversion even if it is) has the right number of teeth, a little alloy welding/cutting is needed but not much, new lugs plus cut the BM swingarm sockets cut in half, ditch the fuel injection and fit a pair of 38mm FCR's or even Dell's (why not)

modern motors very often have stacked gearboxes, but that doesnt work in the Zane alloy chassis. I realy wanted a Triumph triple, but it realy wont work well, the right side frame rail clashes badly. I bought a motor and tried hard, ending up scrapping a frame, and re-selling the motor at a loss.
CLEM
 
That sounds almost exactly what I had in mind, Clem. Only thing I would do differently would be ensure it ra EFI. I'm still fine-tuning the FCRs on the SFQ 10,000km in. Brilliant carbs, but they will never offer the ease of adjustability and fuel efficiency of EFI - or is the Rotax 800 running FCRs already?
 
no they are injection, but there is a local dyno house nearby who are very good, normally, although recently the cocked up Nickdav7's dirt bike, maybe time to go further afield?, Dells would be quick since I have boxes of new and used parts, a jetting swing would be a synch, on Toms flat tracker the carbs have 3 (yes three) adjustments for slow running, you need a man who can walk the walk not talk the talk., hard to find. In Italy at an Ice race, a few years ago, 75% of UK bikes were hard to start because it was 15c below, a few failed to start at all, Toms flat tracker, twin FCR's on Yam 600TT started third kick, after a tiny squirt of raw fuel into the intakes, and ran perfectly all weekend, (the carbs were set up by Ray, who was realy the man behind Stan Stephens success). he was only beaten by Giovanni Busei, and only then because he dare not risk taking this pro WSB rider out, an inside pass on the last corner of the final was definately on the cards, Tom was clearly able due to the speed of his catchup, and corner entry, but a slide out or even an off was the risk!
CLEM
 
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Having spent quite some time getting my head around FCRs, in another life I'd definitely be looking into custom EFI - as Steve B has done with his RGS.

Slow running on FCRs actually has four elements involved and each affects the other: slow fuel jet, adjustable slow fuel screw, slow air jet and needle root diameter. If you include transition from a closed throttle you can throw needle clip position into the mix ... and EVERYTHING is influenced by the main jet (which is why the very first thing you do is set your main jet).

I've been chasing a stutter on transitioning throttle since I got the SFQ on the road (now covered over 10,000km). It was initially annoyingly bad riding at 30-40kph in 2nd, 50-60kph in 3rd to accelerating from 90kph in 5th. I've gone through myriad changes - slow fuel jet and adjustable fuel screw, gone two steps leaner on the needed root diameter, checked and re-checked float height. Finally got it close enough to no longer being annoying (but still not right) by setting the aftermarket Sudco adjustable slow air jets as far out as they would go before stopping against the intake stacks (more than 3 1/2 turns out). If I still had the fixed slow air jets (non-adjustable) in place I would have spent about $500 on jets getting to that setting!

Having run out of ideas with the pilot fuel and air system, last week I decided to try and find a better solution. I lifted the needles one notch (richer) and immediately noticed the stutter was worse - a Eureka moment! So set them three notches leaner and screwed the slow air jets back to 2 3/4 turns. Test rode yesterday and the difference is amazing. It's so good I don't feel the need to play with it any further, but may see what effect playing with the slow air screw has. And I'm hoping I'll see an improvement in fuel economy. Time will tell.

As for starting, being 'race use only' carbs they have no choke system (unlike the FCRs fitted to early GSX-Rs), they only have accelerator pumps. I've disconnected mine and they are operated by a thumb lever on the left handlebar. A few squirts and it fires straight up, even on the coldest Melbourne morning (around zero deg C. You might assume by the symptoms I describe that the accelerator pumps would have resolved that transitioning throttle stutter but the fact that I've gone leaner and it works contradicts that - and giving the thumb lever a squirt on the road where the stutter would manifest itself resulted in the motor almost shutting down.

What was the title of this thread again? :ROFLMAO:
 
On the subject of dynos, I had an interesting convo with a shop owner, well known for dyno tuning. He has had so much aggro (literally) from 'vintage' bike owners that he will no longer put a bike older than 20 years on his dyno. Blanket rule, no exceptions. We're talking idiots sending heavies around to hassle him and his staff when informed that their very poorly 'rebuilt' Z900 clearly needed major reparation work.

Another older bike had a full carb tune, left the shop running perfectly, developed an electrical/ignition fault a few months later and the owner returned to verbally abuse the shit out of him. He made exceptions for more reliable customers only to have those who'd been refused hearing about it and again abusing the poor guy. Big shame.
 
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