RGS gauze filter

Re5Guy said:
Just to help (or not) the discussion I can say that in my case...
- the engine has never been apart to the best of my knowledge, done 13,000km
- I carefully inspected the inside of the engine with an endoscope, it was very clean inside (like looked "new" clean).
- I have replaced the clutch plates with new ones and this was the first oil change since installation.
- the air filter is new and not degrading.
- no idea what oil was in it, but now using a 20/50 mineral oil.
- the fluff looks black to me

cheers, Tony
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Would a sample still be available for testing. ? Just a thought.
 
I rebuilt my RGS engine in 1989, I was meticulous with cleaning everything internally and externally. After reassembly into the chassis and running on and off for about 20 minutes to get gradually up to temperature I dropped the oil which was still spotless. The filter however was a different story and had the same sort of 'fluff' as described. The oil used was the green Duckhams Hyper grade (came in the blue plastic container) which I think was 15W/40 and superceded Slaters favorite 'Duckams Q'.
At the time I had dissmissed the phenomena as being fibres from the cleaning cloths I had used during assembly and was intrigued to read this thread......
 
Air screw loose said:
I rebuilt my RGS engine in 1989, I was meticulous with cleaning everything internally and externally. After reassembly into the chassis and running on and off for about 20 minutes to get gradually up to temperature I dropped the oil which was still spotless. The filter however was a different story and had the same sort of 'fluff' as described. The oil used was the green Duckhams Hyper grade (came in the blue plastic container) which I think was 15W/40 and superceded Slaters favorite 'Duckams Q'.
At the time I had dissmissed the phenomena as being fibres from the cleaning cloths I had used during assembly and was intrigued to read this thread......
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All following regular oil and filter changes with the same oil brand were 'clean' as expected and the fluff was consigned to history....or so I thought....

As an aside I always manage to drop the filter by just loosening the exhaust system and removing just one downpipes and wriggling the filter out.
 
Andy J said:
As opposed to this type of Fuzz???? 😉
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Can`t find it right now , but there was a Benny Hill sketch ..... ( as Fred Scuttle ) ...... where Fred was a security guy at an art gallery ......

When asked about dealing with trouble makers , Fred was asked if the police might be called .......

..... and if the miscreant would be " picked up by the fuzz " .........

Fred paused for a second , looking slightly confused , then replied ..... " No , me and the lads would usually just give them a tap on the shoulder Sir " ........
 
that Yamaha fuzz looks much drier than that I have seen in Lav engines, Paul Mullhollands Jota 120 was meticoulously serviced anually by various Laverda dealers at the time, of course he never knew what oil was going in, he just paid the bill, 12 years of ownership with varrying annual mileages, and then at the last service, he didnt make it the 185 miles home, with the exhaust cam seizing, slowing the motor, and for safety Paul felt this and cut the ignition, it then stopped dead and he coasted to a stop, he had dome 150 miles, the fluff was a total coating of the strainer, I have no idea what the mechanic installed to get the motor going again, BUT HE SAID AND CHARGED for new exhaust cam and three new exhaust cam bearings, the motor never felt right after that. which is starnge since the pumped supply does not apply to the outer main bearings, and the pistons/bores, which are splash fed, just the centre bearings and all cam bearings pumped, which gives leakage/drainage for the top end, valves guide, chain etc
that sample would be very usefull if sent to an oil specialist.
CLEM
 
CLEMTOG said:
that Yamaha fuzz looks much drier than that I have seen in Lav engines, Paul Mullhollands Jota 120 was meticoulously serviced anually by various Laverda dealers at the time, of course he never knew what oil was going in, he just paid the bill, 12 years of ownership with varrying annual mileages, and then at the last service, he didnt make it the 185 miles home, with the exhaust cam seizing, slowing the motor, and for safety Paul felt this and cut the ignition, it then stopped dead and he coasted to a stop, he had dome 150 miles, the fluff was a total coating of the strainer, I have no idea what the mechanic installed to get the motor going again, BUT HE SAID AND CHARGED for new exhaust cam and three new exhaust cam bearings, the motor never felt right after that. which is starnge since the pumped supply does not apply to the outer main bearings, and the pistons/bores, which are splash fed, just the centre bearings and all cam bearings pumped, which gives leakage/drainage for the top end, valves guide, chain etc
that sample would be very usefull if sent to an oil specialist.
CLEM
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So I’m looking for “wet fuzz”…just done a search…😳
 
mauricejota7604

Thread 'oil pump 120 Jota'

Hi I am looking for some help here, I went out for another small ride on the 120 Jota I have reassembled and noticed after a while that the oil cooler was very cool, I took the left hand oil line off to the cooler and started the engine and found only spits of oil coming out hmmm this is not good.
So I dug a bit deeper and got into the oil pump I took the gear off the crank so I could spin the pump by hand and found that little hole in the crankcase that squirts oil onto the primary chain that SteveB was telling me about was squirting oil but next to nothing was going up to the oil cooler...
 
If the Jota 120 owner Clem describes had various dealers carrying out the service over a period of twelve years , and just paid the bill ..... without even knowing what oil was going in ......... then how would he know if these different dealers were bothering to drop the exhaust and check the filter each time , or not ?

If a different dealer was servicing the bike each time , then they would have no idea of what had been carried out at the previous service , and then maybe just assume the filter had been checked by whoever serviced the bike last time ........ and most likely thought just a simple oil change would do , and leave it at that ...........

If this was indeed the state of affairs which had been going on for the last twelve ( ! ) years , then I`m not surprised the filter ended up the way it did ....... and that the last dealer who " serviced " the bike tried to hide the evidence when the filter was removed ........

If I were the owner , I would have taken a greater interest in what was being done to my bike ........... even to the extent of ...... ( shock horror ) ...... doing it myself ........ instead of leaving it to different individuals each time ........

Oil changes and filter checks are not difficult ........

If you carry out this simple task and take a look at the filter yourself at REGULAR , FREQUENT intervals ..... when the engine is really , really hot , not just warm ............ then you are giving any fluff / fuzz / cotton / tissue virtually zero chance of forming in the first place .........

....... and if there is anything there , clean it .......... If this is done regularly then this phenomenon will most likely go away ........... along with any thoughts as to what may have caused it ........



I get the feeling that ( in some cases ) this phenomenon could be down to oil being left to stagnate in low mileage bikes for long periods of time .........

" It`s only done 1000 miles in the last three years so the oil must still be ok ......... " ........

No ..... it won`t still be ok .............

......... and laziness ........... just can`t be arsed to drop the exhaust to check the filter each time , so why bother ? ...................
 
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piranha-bro2 said:
It really is a bizarre anomaly. Clearly a chemical reaction between some additive/s used in different oils. Why the 120s are the only ones affected is even more puzzling. The gauge of the mesh seems to be the only significant difference.
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I’m with Q on this one.

Who is to say it doesn’t happen to other engines? The majority of engines use spin on filters, how many people dissect their used spin on filters to see what’s inside?

However, Mr Pritt threw a spanner in the works with his industrial sewing machine experience. FFS…
 
CLEMTOG said:
What you must do is several oil changes using the same brand of oil, do something like 100 miles and get the motor nice and hot, drop the oil, clean the strainer with petrol and go again, do it at least two times, three would be better, over the top??? remember what my dear departed dad always told me "oil is cheaper than bearings" and yes the bleeding exhaust is a right pain in the arse, use that oil brand forever. NEEDS DOING
CLEM
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Just to agree completely with what Clem said earlier .............

Always stick with the same brand ........ Every other time you change it look at the filter ........... Every time if you don`t do much mileage ........... Or at least change and check every six months ......... If there`s stuff on the filter then clean it ............ and keep repeating this routine ............

Don`t give the stuff ..... ( whatever it is ) ..... the chance to appear in the first place ...............
 
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CLEMTOG said:
the motor never felt right after that. which is starnge since the pumped supply does not apply to the outer main bearings, and the pistons/bores, which are splash fed, just the centre bearings and all cam bearings pumped, which gives leakage/drainage for the top end, valves guide, chain etc

CLEM
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What supplies the slingers, Clem? Oil is pumped to the slingers, which feeds the big ends and the overflow from that spays oil to the underside of the pistons and into the bores. An SF motor i rebuilt had a rod bent at 180 deg and a major seizure because some genius had sleeved the inner main journals but neglected to drill and grind the oil feed to the big ends. Same basic slinger config as the triples.

Of course, if this flows freely the fluff may well end up in the slingers (as Vince suggests) - a lot haerder to block that oil feed pathway than a fine gauze mesh.
 
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