RGS Primary Noise

[tom3c75]

Been doing a few maintenance tasks on my RGS.  The main aim was to resolve some clutch slip that occurred under load.  The primary chain and clutch were relatively quiet, but since the bike has done about 30K kms, I decided to also change the primary chains while I was at it.  The clutch plates, rubbers and chains were all original.  I did the following:

1.  Checked clutch plates for wear.  They were within spec at about 2.95mm.
2.  Removed the small springs on plates 7 and 8.
3.  Added a steel plate between the 7th and 8th plates. 
4.  Oriented all the steel plates with the rounded edges facing inwards, i.e. towards the gearbox.
    (The rounded edges had been facing outwards).
5.  Checked and retained the clutch rubbers, as they were not particularly hardened or cracked.
6.  Replaced the two single primary chains with a new triplex (supplied by Wolfgang).
7.  Engine and primary sprockets are triplex.  I could not discern or measure any difference between the outer, inner and centre sprocket rows.
8.  The existing chain tensioner was retained. 

Now the clutch no longer slips.  However, when idling in neutral the primary/clutch seems a little noisier than original.  Not excessive, but noticible to my obsessive ear.  Yet, the noise completely disappears when the clutch lever is pulled in, it's almost as if there is no chain or clutch in place!    Out on the road everything operates as normal.

I realise that the wear grooves in the tensioner no longer correspond with the triplex chain.  But my reasoning was that the triplex chain would soon wear new grooves, and the plan is to check the tension after a few hundred kms.    Also, other than checking for hardening and cracks, I did not check for slack in the clutch rubbers. 

I'd also like to refit the two small clutch plate tensioning springs, but will first need to size down the added steel plate.    Must admit that I'm at a loss as to how to fit those small springs without a special tool. 
 
Any ideas about the primary noise in neutral, with the clutch out, will be appreciated.

Thanks, Tom.

 

[murphus]

The noise is there because you removed the springs, whose job it is to keep things quiet. Some hate it, some don't care. I have no springs as mine were damaged when I went to replace the discs, and not having replacements on hand I decided to try without. Noisy for sure, but only bugs me at a rest, which isn't often!
Richard

 

[Grant]

Triplex will be noisier than 2 x Simplex.
The Duplex is even quieter.
Did you shim out the clutch drum correctly?
Outer edge should be in line with the crank sprocket (straight edge).
I never refit the clutch plate springs, can't hear any difference.

 

[Paul Marx]

Balance the carbs and up the idle.

Paul

 

[Schurminater]

[quote

Any ideas about the primary noise in neutral, with the clutch out, will be appreciated.

Thanks, Tom.
[/quote]

I went the other way Tom,from Triplex to Duplex and i was convinced mine sounded different at tickover with the clutch out also????

very strange.

 

[Ventodue]

<snip> However, when idling in neutral the primary/clutch seems a little noisier than original.  Not excessive, but noticeable to my obsessive ear.  Yet the noise completely disappears when the clutch lever is pulled in.  Any ideas about the primary noise in neutral, with the clutch out, will be appreciated.

I've always understood that a common cause of this is wear in the clutch drum.  And that while it can be annoying, it's not particularly serious.  And that yes, those two little springs can help.  For which, read on ....

I'd also like to refit the two small clutch plate tensioning springs ... Must admit that I'm at a loss as to how to fit those small springs without a special tool. 

Here you go, Tom:  4 possible ways that I have saved over the years, with the authors of each duly credited  .    (I have to admit, tho'.  Me, I can't be bothered  ...)

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I spoke to Richard Slater a few weeks back who told me that he used lock wire to pre-tension the springs

1. Drill 1mm dia. holes in appropriate lugs on the plates, then pull the springs into tension and alignment with the lock wire.

2. Install all the plates and the drum.

3. Pull the lockwire out.

To ensure all the lockwire comes out and is not trapped by the drum, wind it onto the plates with the loops facing back towards the engine.

Was it worth the hassle? I don't know, since I didn't try it without the springs; but now that the holes are in, I'll use them again next time.

Alan P661
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The correct spring tension is best achieved using the factory tool, but it can be done by:

Fiddle the drum up to the last plate (the drum has guide lines cast into it to show the area inside which the splines have been machined away) then have an assistant pull the clutch lever in.

Reach round the back of the clutch center and hold it with your finger, then turn the clutch drum clockwise one spline while applying light inward pressure.  The drum should then plop home with the rattle springs tensioned.

Phew!  Probably easier to do than it is to explain ?

Keith
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I have done the pre-loading of the springs on road-side repairs. It?s possible, but a pain ?

1. Assemble the clutch, and fix the screws until the plates can still be moved a bit.

2. Making sure that you have the basket positioned correctly, i.e. the teeth-less section aligns with where the springs sit, put the basket on until all plates are covered except the last one.

3. Engage 3rd or 4th gear and turn the basket (with the clutch plates in) all of a sudden thereby tensioning the springs.

4. Now fiddle the last plate into the basket (you can remove it first to align the last clutch plate with the others)

5. Remove the basket again and fasten the screws.

Lothar
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I figured out a way to install the anti-rattle springs.

? Cut two tapered pieces of sheet metal.
? Slide the two innermost plates onto the clutch drum.
? Slip the tapered pieces of sheet metal under the springs and push in until the teeth of the two plates line up.
? Remove the plates and trim off the excess sheet metal.
? Reinstall the two plates
? Install and line up the rest of the clutch plates as usual.
? Once the plates are clamped by the pressure plate,  pull out the sheet metal spacers with needle nose pliers.

Art

 

[pf1]

No wonder I threw mine in the bin.

 

[Grant]

(bigthumb)

 

[piranha-bro2]

Fookin' hell! I'd take the noise any day.

 

[Legs]

Got rid of mine years ago, can't honestly say it made any difference.

 

[motoddrob]

Got rid of mine years ago too. The Mikuni flat sides out rattle the clutch plate tension so don't hear a thing.
I don't think I would've replaced the primary chain with a triplex when there are better chains available. IE: the Merc duplex.
Lot less weight spinning around the primary. Would've thought the factory dumped the triplex for a reason.

 

[tom3c75]

Thank you all for your comments.

Yes, crank and primary sprockets were perfectly aligned.  Carbs were synced.  Idled smoothly, but perhaps a little slowly, at approx. 1000rpm according to the unsteady Vaguelia.

I have now replaced the triplex with a Merc duplex and also renewed the clutch rubbers.  While the old ones looked OK, and there didn?t seem to be much play once fitted, the new ones are a much tighter fit and the whole set up is much more rigid. 

The noise is gone now, just runs with a smooth and subdued whir.  I?m not sure whether it was the chain or the new rubbers, or both, that cured it.   

The reason I fitted the triplex was because the sprockets were triplex, and I had two spare triplex chains, and only one duplex.  Also, I run triplex chains on my 3C (DID) and Jota (Iwis, from Andy).  No clutch rattle or chain noise on either bike. 

Still puzzled as to why the triplex on the RGS was noisy (it wasn?t clutch rattle, it seemed like chain noise), but ran so silently with the clutch pulled in.  Perhaps there is more drag when there are additional clutch components engaged, and this, with the less than perfect clutch rubbers, resulted in more lash with the heavier chain?

Craig:  Thanks for your post re the small springs.  I?d seen Keith?s, and also one by Maurice, but not the others.    I'll try them when the time comes, or I may create my own version using parts of the various approaches.  In the meantime I?ll forego the springs until I either get some Kevlar plates, or size down the added steel plate.

Tom