RGS Starting Issue

2

2Types

Junior member
Location
Wales
I am having trouble starting my RGS from cold. Compression is good, valve clearances checked and carbs rebuilt. This has helped a little but not resolved. A spray of easy start gets it going and then it will start and running and idle. It still spits and pops when starting 'warm'. Plugs were clean and after a few starts and short static running I removed them and the right hand one was a bit black the other two virtually clean just very little light brown. It spins on the starter quickly and the battery voltage does not drop below 11.5 volts.

Could this be a weak coil on the right hand cylinder? If yes what is the best way to check?

What else could I be checking.

Thanks
 
Hello there, welcome. Reads like usual bosch BTZ issues, you may well be on the money with weak coil, only if red in colour. Look for three shiny alloy boxes near the battery, if so, budget for a modern ignition. Hope that helps. j
 
If it starts take it for a ride. RGSs take a long time to warm up...and just sitting there idling is the worst option...
 
Bosch ignition may be the problem if the battery is not the best. The Bosch iignition needs a lot of power, sometimes it ignites when the starter stops wiit one big bang….
After I swaped it with a Witt ign. it starts also with a weak battery.
 
The 3CL wouldn't start after its winter lay up. I reasoned that the motorcycle was starting without any problem last October so I considered the battery was suspect. Having charged the battery up the engine started immediately so I left the machine 48 hours and attempted to start it again but the engine wouldn't start. I have now purchased a new battery, there has been no further problems now that a new AGM battery has been fitted.
 
If the case of BTZ and old they are now, the driver transistor feeding the coil primary was so lossy ( Technical; Vcesat was dreadful around 2 volts or more and the reason for the anti start resistors on the coils * ) leading to feeble 15KV on the HT leads, any plug fouling under cold crank was too much for the BTZ. Hence the ride it quick mantra.

Cut to post BTZ, iis TA was good for 25 to 30Kv on the ht circuit. The iis TCI long box was a constant 35Kv from battery 3V to 24V, so much grunt that fouling never stopped the TCI, if you did have a fouled plug(s), put the box in test position F and have a cup of tea, ignition on. Cleared a spark path through the fouled plug nose. Equates to obviating the need to ride off quick, for normal operating carby setups. j.

* 2Types, if still fitted, remove the anti start resistors from the coils if oem, poxy idea from the get go....
 
A couple of things I’d check:
-is it always the RH cylinder? Perhaps it is a coil, swap the wires with the one next to it and see if the problem moves
-Plugs often need to be replaced, not just cleaned.
-are you using resistor plugs OR resistor suppressor caps OR resistor HT leads? (must use one of these, but no more than one)
-if it starts ok with ether, is it a fuel problem? Are you using 95 or better? Are all 5 filters clear? If your carbs have just had work then I’d hope the little filter on each carb would be good, but at the same time they may now need idle adjustments and balancing (unless the carb rebuilder had the whole bike to work with). Did they remember to put the little balance hoses back on?
-does it run on all 3 cylinders immediately after start up? If not, feel (carefully) the headers to see which one’s cold.
-choke (sorry, ‘enrichment’) plungers seated fully and lifting AND returning properly?
-intake stubs in good condition with no splits? Clamps fitted and tightened?
-if you still have the original Bosch ignition pickups then check that the insulation is still in good condition. And consider replacing the entire ignition at some point, for all sorts of reasons 😁
 
I am using new plugs and have a strong battery. Running standard BTZ ignition and original looking coils.
I have gone through all connections, power feeds and earth's and cleaned them with contact cleaner.
I cut the right hand lead back and reattached the plug cap.
I am using an auxiliary fuel tank with fresh Shell V power. The tank lining has failed so will need tog et that relined before I can ride the bike.
The bike is now starting from cold although still pops and bangs a little before starting and then runs ok. The plugs now look even. and I clean them after every start as I cannot take it for a ride.
I have only just installed the little balance pipes across the balancing port. My 180 did not have these and never had an issue. Do they make a difference on starting?
I will tune the carbs but it ticks over quite well.
I am now thinking while the tank is off etc I should at least change the coils and leads. I would like a direct replacement if possible. What are the best options in the UK and best place to source them from.

Thanks for all the help to all who have responded.
 
2Types said:
I am using new plugs and have a strong battery. Running standard BTZ ignition and original looking coils.
I have gone through all connections, power feeds and earth's and cleaned them with contact cleaner.
I cut the right hand lead back and reattached the plug cap.
I am using an auxiliary fuel tank with fresh Shell V power. The tank lining has failed so will need tog et that relined before I can ride the bike.
The bike is now starting from cold although still pops and bangs a little before starting and then runs ok. The plugs now look even. and I clean them after every start as I cannot take it for a ride.
I have only just installed the little balance pipes across the balancing port. My 180 did not have these and never had an issue. Do they make a difference on starting?
I will tune the carbs but it ticks over quite well.
I am now thinking while the tank is off etc I should at least change the coils and leads. I would like a direct replacement if possible. What are the best options in the UK and best place to source them from.

Thanks for all the help to all who have responded.
Click to expand...
And another tank lining failed!
Keep away from the stuff unless you're tank is in fibreglass or full of holes and you don't want to or cannot repair it properly, ie cut the old section out and weld a new one in.

You'll have to envisage looking further than the UK if you want to keep your Laverda running.

Paul
 
Mmmmmm 20+ years ago, my friends RGS would not cold start would not hot start, would throw massive blue flames out the exhausts ( failed ignition for fuel loads, then built up fuel load explodes out of the exhaust ).... how i started on the iis journey... ND coils ( pinky colour ) are spike terminated, you need to dig out the epoxy carefully to replace the HT leads with plain copper 7m/m ( Lawn mower HT lead ) or have fabricated inductive HT leads ( no need for resistor covers with the latter, if dark red motoplat coils, then throw all of them out at once.

Take my leave at this point, BTZ are too much to endure in the modern age, complete rubbish and hinder a very nice motor.... best of British. j
 
Ran my triple on original BTZ for what I now consider to be three wasted years before finally taking the good advice on here to fit a modern ignition system. Steve (Schurminater) fitted a DMC/2 for me and transformed the bike. All manner of faults and niggles disappeared once it was fitted. It seems like until you are sure the ignition is fully functional you maybe treating the symptoms and not the cause.
 
2Types said:
I am using new plugs and have a strong battery. Running standard BTZ ignition and original looking coils.
I have gone through all connections, power feeds and earth's and cleaned them with contact cleaner.
I cut the right hand lead back and reattached the plug cap.
I am using an auxiliary fuel tank with fresh Shell V power. The tank lining has failed so will need tog et that relined before I can ride the bike.
The bike is now starting from cold although still pops and bangs a little before starting and then runs ok. The plugs now look even. and I clean them after every start as I cannot take it for a ride.
I have only just installed the little balance pipes across the balancing port. My 180 did not have these and never had an issue. Do they make a difference on starting?
I will tune the carbs but it ticks over quite well.
I am now thinking while the tank is off etc I should at least change the coils and leads. I would like a direct replacement if possible. What are the best options in the UK and best place to source them from.

Thanks for all the help to all who have responded.
Click to expand...

I had my spare RGS tank repaired and relined by Hartlepool Radiators. Knowledgeable people and an excellent job.

www.fueltanks.co.uk

Fuel Tanks Repairs Hartlepool - Fuel Tanks

If you require fuel tank repairs in Hartlepool, call Fuel Tanks today. Visit our website for more information on the fuel tank repairs that we offer.
www.fueltanks.co.uk www.fueltanks.co.uk

Alan 😊
 
iis_iis said:
<snip> BTZ are too much to endure in the modern age, complete rubbish and hinder a very nice motor...
Click to expand...

(y).

Honestly, 2Types - do your bike a favour and fit a Witt DMC (or other of your choice).

Remember, Uwe had good reason for designing and making them all those years ago (ditto, John with his IIS). And no-one is going to suggest that the original Bosch BTZ system has got any better over the years.
 
Thanks for the advice will investigate a new ignition system as it looks the tank will take a few weeks to get sorted. Thanks for the recommendation Alan on the tank I will give them a call.
 
2Types said:
I should at least change the coils and leads. I would like a direct replacement if possible.
Click to expand...
Seldom an issue if you have the Nippon Denso cream coloured items (usually appear to be black when covered with the usual road dirt). The later red Motoplat ones are rubbish. Much better to fit a new ignition like the DMC2. A quick search here will tell you all you need to know about alternative HT coils.
Decent secondhand TEK MP03 items are my preference and will fit on to the existing - likely cracked - aluminium bracket under the tank.
 
Not sure what shell v power is in the UK. Here it is 98 octane evil shit. Got another failed 1200 cc modern triumph in the shop, totally coked up with black shit in 7000km of constant shell 98 use. Stay away from that shit. 95 octane only. Mine all run fine on the local 91 unleaded as well.
 
It seems that fuels vary dramatically from region to region. Here at least Shell V Power 98 octane is excellent stuff (but wicked expensive), can run race bikes and I use it often in my high comp SF on the road which has until now run fine also on regular 95. Many servos are dropping 98 now unfortunately, and now 95 is getting 10% ethanol, am concerned about that in my bikes. So Oz shell 98 not necessarily same as in Wales.
 
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