Running in oil

It used to be common to put a sign in the back window of your new car saying Running in. Moden stuff probably ends its production on a rolling road with censors up the ying-yang plus super accurate build tolerances.
 
I reckon the easy run in is partly a liability issue with new vehicles. I haven't met an engine builder yet who advocates a long slow run-in ....... and if it's good enough for them ...... and aero engine folk ........ then I'm all for it.
My MGS-01 as a brand new bike listed the break-in as lots of gear changes and rpm changes for the first 20 km ....... with restrictions on load at low rpm but not at higher rpm ....... and no restriction to max rpm. Then it was change the oil. After that it was full go. The recommended way to break-in was on the track or on a dyno. I did track first ..... then dyno.

Jim
 
In my opinion, the most stunning bike around. There was an upmarket bike shop in William st Sydney that I passed at that had one in the window. I stopped for a long hard look. Guzzi made that and so many ugly bikes, hard to believe it was the same company.
 
Manufacturer's will always recommend lengthy break in period to save on warranty claims, can you imagine telling young Italians to cane it from the off?
I had an Iranian customer Mr Safwat, sold him a new GPZ600. I was showing him over the bike , horn , indicators , lights blah,blah and he turns the key, fires it up and to the limiter-Pah-Pah-Pah-Pah.
His two mates seemed very impressed.
I used to tell people just ride normally and don’t make it labour. Had more warranty problems with glazing than seizing.
 
morning gents,

It all comes down to how the engine was built and what you want from it.
A race engine would and will be built to finer tolerances than a run off the mill mass production machine. And then there are material quality and surface finishing to be considered of course.
'Back then', and if you'd want a street machine to last long and not burn oil the traditional 'take it easy the first 5000km's' would be a very wise approach. To be honest I still tend to lean towards that today, not much 'pre war clunkers' about it. Aero engines have a completely different intended use.
Buy a new machine under warranty with the intent to use it for some years and then get rid of it... well if it goes bang in the first year you can dump it at the dealer's and if not then it will no longer be yours when it develops problems. You choose.

If you are starting up a freshly rebuilt Laverda then things are slightly different. You have roller bearings in the crank and probably cams. Cams and gearbox already have had a life so little or no running in there either. Main items to consider: pistons, rings, bores.
What parts did you use? Old stock or identical specs? Or modern materials and tolerances? And what finishing technique was used on the bores? Traditional plateau honing or something like flex-hone? What dimension tolerances and surface roughness did that give you?

Let's say the engine has received more modern parts and machining, so it's a better machine than ex-factory. I would
- fill with a very regular or even low grade mineral oil, viscosity as per factory specs
- start and run 5-10 minutes between 2000-4000 (not over, not under, certainly no idling) without load to warm up and inspect for leaks, noises etc
- run 20-40 minutes 2000-5000 moderate loads, keep varying (on the road: go for a nice ride. No traffic light duels, no highway cruising)
- let it cool down, retorque the head, inspect
- run for another 30 minutes, gradually building up to bouts of max revs and load, still varying a lot (so next day go for a more sporty ride)
- change the oil, filter (if any), inspect. Fill with a good modern synth or semi-synth oil.
- run it as you like. Enjoy!

Having a magnet in the sump (plug) as discussed in another thread is a BIG plus.

regards
Tom
 
Years ago there was a TV programme which showed the end of a Honda production line. The bike was started on a rolling road and then revved a lot harder than I was at the time led to believe was good for a new engine. Honda obviously knew what they were doing better than myself or most others. Interestingly there are many who now advocate hard running under load on first start up to seat rings.
 
Normski said:
Years ago there was a TV programme which showed the end of a Honda production line. The bike was started on a rolling road and then revved a lot harder than I was at the time led to believe was good for a new engine. Honda obviously knew what they were doing better than myself or most others. Interestingly there are many who now advocate hard running under load on first start up to seat rings.
Click to expand...
Honda quality, cylinder and ring materials. Most likely cylinder surface finished with flex-hones. Would be quite possible yes.
Any idea on when that was shot?
 
I visited the Porsche Factory, back in the mid '80s. Each engine including Turbos, still air-cooled, was built and went straight on the Dyno. Where it was run up to the max and its outputs checked to see that they were up to spec., before it was fitted in a body.
I got the strong impression that these guys knew what they were doing.
 
If we limit ourselves to air-cooled engines only, I imagine that it makes a difference when we compare components with the same coefficient of expansion - for example aluminum pistons in a Nicasil-coated cylinder. This should differ from the environment of aluminum pistons in cast iron barrels. The latter would require an increased running clearance, but should be more susceptible in particular in the run-in phase because the aluminum in the pistons expands more than the cylinders. So we shouldn't compare apples and oranges ...
 
I think there have been enough anecdotes submitted on here of high-load running with various types of (new) motors to substantiate the modern thinking that you down't pussy a new motor, Laverda or otherwise. Out of interest, does anyone know of anyone, anywhere, who has treated their Laverda this way on a PROPERLY built motor, who has suffered engine damage or poor durability as a result?
 
Anyone has recently read manuals for new cars? Some still state long running-in.

A couple of examples just read from their owner's manuals:
Skoda Scala 2019: 1500 kms
Hyundai 2019: 1000 kms
Ford Focus 2011: engine 1500 kms, new tyres 500 kms, new brakes 150 kms in city/1500 kms on highway

Some new cars even have automatic programs in ECU for running-in.

-Jouni
 
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If a cast iron bored engine is first trashed or laboured, bigger bits from the honing crack away (in microscopic scale) and some scuffing will appear. The settling of the rings with high pressure should not be done first but later. The running-in has major effect to how long different kind of parts last and surface quality especially in the bores. May I ask how long people think that pistons last in big Laverdas?

Many japanese motorcycle factories have done following for decades: They trash all of the engines on testing, at least at end of it. They scrap/salvage the engines that fail, this is a policy to prevent weak population of manufactured engines to be delivered to customers. For example piston rings have soft coatings for testing and running-in, they also accept that the test may shorten life of some parts due microscopic damages.

I consider factories of Western corporations who put their just built engines to dynos have a planned cycle what they drive. They may first drive it nicely for long time. Even if they take a lot of power at the end of the cycle, it is based on careful research and different kind of configurations.

-Jouni
 
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500km to run in new tyres? 150km to bed in brakes? Wow, that's ... um, interesting. By the time my new car tyres (Pirellis or Michelins) have done 500km they have been giving their best for 480km!
 
Morning!

Porsche do know very well what they are doing, indeed. That is why they stopped using cast iron cylinder liners around 1970, so anything after that would be Nikasil or more likely Alusil, with honing techniques and ring materials to match. Not quite what we have in a Laverda, or any other cast iron cylinder based engine for that matter.
Jo and Jouni got it right: different constructions, different behaviour. There was a mention of Guzzi earlier, they moved to Nikasil etc long ago too.

If 'modern wisdom' states you can do whatever to a new engine without visible damage, then it's modern engines that may have changed, not the engineering knowledge behind it. And you may easily have taken 100.000km off of an engine that could have lasted over 400.000 but who does that anyway? (hint: I do).

The run-in procedure I suggested takes about an hour of running, which is less than 100km on the street. Not quite 5000kms of pussying it.
But if you want to thrash your freshly built Laverda, well go ahead. It's your engine after all.
And maybe it makes you look tough, that's important too.

Tom
 
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