Safe revs?

philw

Junior member
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lincs
Hi All ,and a happy new year...as a relative newcomer to my 77 Jota and after having had extensive cylinder head work done by Keith Nairn recently i just wondered how safe it is to rev the tits off it?, as we all know, the redline starts at 6500RPM, and after a recent ride it is begging to be revved way past this, i just don't want to do any damage even though Keith advised me to 'ride it like you stole it'.

Thanks Phil.
 
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What rods? Keith knows more than me. I guess it depends on how keen the local cops are. 7400 is where I think my rev limiter is set at but I rarely go beyond 6500, but sometimes I don't watch the tacho too closely. That 6500 is really a suggestion only. I know my local spanner man is constantly telling me I need to stop babying mine. But mine is fully a Redax build including rods and crank
 
Stock Rods AFAIK, only asking cos the bike is a lot revvier after the work on the head was done, also had new Ignitech ign/charging system fitted at the same time and it almost feels like a different beast. :D
 
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He probably dialled the cams in, he knows his stuff. Ask him where he set the rev limiter. I have never hit mine in my Igntech so I don't even know if it's a soft or hard limiter, anyone know out there.
 
This is a bit like the question ”how far can you safely lean a bike over in a bend”. The answer to that is lean it until you fall off and then the next time come back up a few degrees. So I suppose the answer to your question is rev it until it blows and when you’ve rebuilt it rev it a little bit less..😜
however, I suggest finding out where maximum power is produced as I think there is little point in revving it beyond that point.
 
So rev hounds is it a soft limiter or hard, soft like you feel a stutter or hard, it just stops revving. Signed, Too scared to try. I am the same with ABS in the car, too many years being my own ABS. I have hit 7k in top gear on the bike, in a secret test track. It was fine and then the bend arrived.
 
Thanks for all the feedback, just wanted a general opinion without wanting to pester Keith hes verrrry busy at the mo.
 
How deep is your wallet?
To losely quote the Isles-van der Schalk book on the SFC: how far it'll rev depends on your wallet.

Paul
 
I set the rev limiter on the Ignitech systems that we make for road engines at 8,250 rpm, believe Keith does the same but never asked him
My race engines are set at 9,750 RPM and they see that on a regular basis but neither use standard conrods, cranks or bearings

It seems that the majority of standard conrods tend to break between 3,000 and 4,500 rpm so high RPM does not appear to be the reason for them breaking

best reply above was from Cosi, ask Keith where he set the rev limiter and then rev the engine all the way to see if it works
As Keith advised, I do not believe in telling owners to keep their new engines below a certain rev range for "x" amount of miles, just ride them normal including hitting the rev limiter, does far better good than harm to their life expectancy

For example, I take my fresh race engines straight to the Dyno and give them absolute curry with no harm at all, certainly seats the rings in
 
It seems that the majority of standard conrods tend to break between 3,000 and 4,500 rpm so high RPM does not appear to be the reason for them breaking

I take my fresh race engines straight to the Dyno and give them absolute curry with no harm at all, certainly seats the rings in

From what I know of breaking in aero engines and race engines ....... both demand full power break-ins. I also know from aero engines that the worst possible power scenario is full throttle at lower rpms. Does the most damage to the motor (that's from the aero engine handbook and is also pounded into the pilots skull during training. Always best to have a functioning motor that stays functioning.)

So I suggest you listen to Red, listen to Keith as he built the motor....... and maybe even listen to Cosi.

Jim
 
My Zane 750, with a non-standard rod let go in the paddock at low revs. The SFC1000, with presumably a dodgy standard rod, let go pretty well flat out on a run over the mountain in TT practice 1989. 😭
 
hang on will need to sit in my armchair.... no thats too comfy, fall asleep.....wakey wakey...back to soap box.... much better. Did a lot of research on where to set the rev limiter on the iis, 120 and 180 motors are very different. 120 will rev to any limiter with ease, not so much 180 motors in my view. Final outcome was 8250rpm, with staged recovery ie not rev limit and back on full power once under the 8250 limiter. Stepped recovery back from the limiter and crank revolution dependent recovery counter. One of the iis curves has a very low rev limiter to allow testing for feel of the action for the rev limiter without risking life and Laverda other motorists on the open road. Valet curve.

As i used to inform the high rev mob, "rev it til the motor blows then back it off a few hundred rpm"....true, i said that with straight face....lot of fun on a 180 motor and it comes not so much at maximum rpm...HTH j.
 
the folk lore I heard, for whatever it was worth, is that back in the days of Laverda production the 6,500 limit shown on the round face tacho was for the 750 twins. Then, supposedly the same tachos were used on the triples without changing the rev limit, supposedly for cost of production of reasons. I have no way of knowing how true any of that may be.

the other issue is just how accurate or inacurate an old mechanical tach actually may be, especially with the needle bouncing around as so many of them do. My 79 1200 with 4 C cams routinely sees 8,000 + rpm on the mechanical tach before it hits the rev limiter built into John Wilson's IIS ignition that has been in the bike since (?) 2000 maybe? I see John's post above that the limiter in his ignition is set for 8,250, with that the case my bike has hit the rev limiter in the IIS likely hundreds of times. When I get to sending my 79 1200 tach and speedo to Marcel at CB750faces for full rebuilds, I have already pre arranged with him for a custom tacho face with the redline starting at 7,500 rpm, rather than the stock marking of 6,500. So, for my 79 1200, from the original bad bearing crank batch, with crank rebuilt by Phil Todd way back in the day still with stock rods, I have personally done almost 150,000 kms riding it hard and revving it high.

On the other hand, and to Red's point of rods typically failing at lower rpms, my 1984 RGS then stock engine went bang and bent a rod at roughly 3,500 original MILES (USA spec bike) Not being ridden hard, not being revved high. When I went to rebuild the engine, stock rods were in very short supply, so "while I was at it" the crank was rebuilt with Carillo rods and all new bearings supplied by Wolfgang, a 1200 barrel, and high comp 1200 J&E pistons. That engine now has only about 9,000 miles on it, but is holding up well. I pretty much gave up on the RGS tach years ago, the sucker bounces around like a crazy thing, when I am riding it hard (like track days or keping up with friends on modern high powered bikes)) I just wind it until it doesn't want to keep on pulling anymore. The RGS has a 15 year old Witt ignition in it, don't know if the WItt has a rev limiter built in, or if it does, what the rev limiter might be? Does anyone know?

My 82 1200 TS Mirage Series 2 I rebuilt all stock except the ignition, which is an early hybrid from Red, (don't really even remember the details, seem to remember Sasche/Ignitech). Whatever, does not really matter. That bike, with its stock A11 cams, has so much more torque lower down than my 79 1200 with the 4C's, I never really feel any need to rev it high, totally different character and riding experience.

Your mileage may vary. I am just relating my own experience. Use whatever shift point and red line you are personaly comfortable with, 6,500 rpm should certainly be the safest unless you experience a con rod failure at even lower rpm's as Red references. These are old bikes after all.
 
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