Series 2 180 internal shift mechanism and clutch operation

Paul LeClair

Administrator
Staff member
Hi all

I seem to have misplaced my Laverda manual, hopefully temporarily..... 1981 Series 2 180 1200. On the right side, gear shift timing mechanism inside the outer cover removed to then remove the larger cover with the hydraulic clutch slave in it.

front sprocket/rear sprocket and chain all replaced, clutch slave rebuilt, ready to refit the two covers over the front sprocket. First, the large cover with the hydraulic slave, new heavily greased ball bearing on end of clutch slave piston, install the entire cover. I will come back to the clutch question....

now to refit the internal gearshift shifter/timing mechanism. I make sure the transmission is in neutral, which results in the internal timing mark resting at 3:00 o'clock inside the case. Then I align the corresponding timing mark (on the round geared shaft with the four shifter pins) to the 3:00 o'clock timing mark inside the case as I insert the round geared shaft.

that should time the shifter mechanism accurately, right.......?

as I haven't adjusted the eccentric screw adjuster on the cover, I then just slip the internal rotating shifter arm mechanism/spring onto its shaft and over the eccentric, line the two teeth of the arm in the pins on the round geared shaft, and should be good, right......?

then, the only remaining issue will be the stupid overall design that doesn't locate the large cover on locating pins, so I may have to loosen the cover bolts and bash the cover placement up and forwards a bit if necessary if the mechanism binds in use, right......

anyway, could someone confirm and or clarify, thanks!

for the clutch operation itself, although I am waiting for a delivery of new clutch plates, I went ahead and put the clutch and primary back together to be able to move forward as I have a bunch of other stuff to install and dial in. I pulled and cleaned the two actuating through rods and the small ball bearing between them, made sure the actuator arm under the clutch spring plate housing that the rod pushes on is clean and straight. So, the two actuator rods and small bearing are fine, other than a possible length issue. However, to fit the right side clutch slave cover with its proper ball bearing, even opening the clutch slave bleeder to allow the slave piston to retract fully against its little internal spring, it is a tough fit for the cover as if the actuator rods are maybe a bit long..... when I took the original assembly apart, it was missing the ball bearing that is supposed to be rotating on the end of the clutch slave piston... so bottom line, does anyone know how much the clutch actuator rod should be sticking out through the front sprocket for a proper fit?

I don't have any oil in the motor, and the clutch is coming apart again once the new plates arrive, but I would like to solve the clutch rod actuating rod length issue, as I know they come in various lengths, and of course I managed to forget to measure the lengths of the existing rods, although I will when I pull it apart again shortly..... It strikes me that the really important measurement to know would be how far the clutch actuating rods should stick out from the front sprocket towards the clutch slave piston.... anyone?

the clutch works fine as it now is, but the operation is much heavier than I think it should be, even with freshly rebuilt master and slave cylinders and new stainless line.

Paul LeClair
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Paul,

IIrc, the clutch push rod extends 35mm over the end of the output shaft, or was it 25mm?.  Doesn't matter much with the hydraulic actuation as the free length has no effect whatsoever on lever ratios etc in this case.  If the cover fits without jamming against the rod, you'll be OK.  Should have a couple of mm clearance to keep the rods free as the clutch plates wear.  Just need to be sure they're not too short to prevent the piston from popping out...

In general, your fitting procedure is correct.

The "heavyness" of the clutch may be caused by the stiff unforgiving braided line as compared to the OE rubber one.  You are now working the clutch alone and not wasting precious lever travel by expanding the rubber hose.  What makes you think the action should be lighter?  

piet
 
Hi Piet

thanks for the confirmation, I need to find my damn manual, it is around here somewhere.... Glad my memory was reasonably accurate.

it has been a while since I dealt with this particular type of hydraulic clutch setup, all stock as it left the Laverda factory except for the now new stainless steel clutch line and freshly rebuilt master and slave cylinders. The rebuild kit for the clutch master was the correct piston with the nylon button on its lever actuated end to ease the lever action.

on both my 79 1200 and my RGS I replaced the clutch master cylinders with more recent remote reservoir units and adjustable high ratio clutch levers. On both my bikes as modified I can pull the clutch with one finger.

This completely hydraulic clutch stock setup on the 81 TS 1200 is not anywhere near as tough to pull as the clutch was on my 71 SFC 750 8000 series, but it is definitely a lot more "manly" to pull than I personally would want to deal with long term if it was my bike, which it isn't.

this stock hydraulic clutch setup, it is a whole left hand/forwarm workout, maybe I have just forgotten how bad the stock setup is....?

the service history of this particular bike is not well known, but the bike has obviously not been touched for a long time. Something is nagging at me that something is just "off" with the clutch actuating rod length's, or that the present clutch pack is just too worn out and thin, maybe resulting in the former owner intentionally removing the ball bearing from the clutch slave piston to postpone changing out the clutch plates, who knows. I am going to pull it back apart and measure everything once the new Kevlar lined clutch plates arrive from Red, maybe the new and thicker Kevlar lined plates will resolve the issue, we'll see.

I also have here at the moment an 82 Jota 1000, which the previous owner converted away from its stock hydraulic clutch to a cable clutch setup, and with a nice new teflon lined cable, lots of lubricant, and a clutch actuating arm extender, it is also a one finger clutch pull. This particular Jota was converted back to cable clutch only because the hydraulic slave cover fractured and a fresh hydraulic cover wasn't readily available at the time, but the cable clutch conversion works really really well.

maybe I am just a wimp, but I hate really heavy clutch pulls, tiring and painful for no apparent purpose. Hopefully thicker new fiber clutch plates will resolve my concern that the clutch actuating rods at present just seem too "long".

Paul LeClair
 
Hi Paul

The original hydraulic clutches on the series 2 180's were never a one-finger pull, unless you had paws on you like a gorilla. They're not much different to the cable setup as far as lever pressure goes.

The new plates will likely make the clutch pull heavier because they will be thicker and will put more pre-load on the springs. 

I have an un-modified (no extended actuating arm) cable clutch, and it can be a bit tiring after a while. I guess I'm not as young and strong as I used to be. It's almost enough of a pain to motivate me to do something about it, but not quite - yet.

Cheers,
Cam
 
Hi Paul,

remember simply WHY you modified your other bike to a smaller clutch master...  ;)

The original Setup is - no, I am NOT saying "crap"!! - not fully engineered to the best possible solution (pfiuhhh.. got around that ice-berg, eh?  :LOL: ). The ratio between master and slave is not optimal. Even for Ducatis, you find different slave cylinders as aftermarket-items to change the ratio...

The 13mm Masters are also not the best, as you will be under danger not to separate the clutch plates fully, which will cause more wear on the plates and potentially on the gear box, too. Optimal would be a 14mm unit (right between the original 15mm and the aftermarket 13mm), but as much as I am searching, I can't find any...

In addition to that, add the fact that there are 3 (!) different piston sizes for Laverda. The 120? bikes had either 31 or 30mm, my Jota has a 34 (!!)mm piston. Seems factory was aware of the problem but just limited to necessary push rod travel and available master cylinders... HTH
 
Lothar,

Just look for a jap 9/16" item, is just about slap-bang on 14mm!

BTW, the 34mm piston should result in the lightest pull, bike might want to "crawl" at standstill with a gear engaged, though..  Stock M/C was 15mm iIrc on the 180s, the RGS got 14mm.

I cannot fault the hydraulic set up on my RGS.  Requires a new o-ring every now and then, along with fresh fluid.  Sure beats the constantly changing cable tension on my 3C when it's worked hard.  I tend to think it was this fault that the factory was aware of when they introduced the hydraulics.

piet
 
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