SFC 750 engine missing

Who mentioned class action?
In the UK a small claims court is the relatively easy and efficient way to deal with this sort of shit.
Class action is a wee bit different.

A class action, class suit, or representative action is a lawsuit where a group of people in similar circumstances (a class) sues another party, usually consumers suing a large business. It is pleonastic to refer to a class action as a "class action suit". Collective lawsuits originated in the United States and are still predominantly a U.S. phenomenon.

Small-claims courts have limited jurisdiction to hear civil cases between private litigants. Courts authorized to try small claims may also have other judicial functions, and go by different names in different jurisdictions. For example, it may be known as a county or magistrate's court
 
Where are all the people who benefited from the missing parts? The odd gasket or piston may go unnoticed but happily knowing you are riding around with a stolen SFC motor underneath you seems a bit low to me. Perhaps you could trace the guy who has the engine and offer him the money he payed Steve in return for your property? A bit sore maybe but it is going to be way cheaper than going through the courts which ultimately will prove fruitless as Steve lives in the alternative society and has nothing for the courts to take other than his liberty, if you can make a case and if in the very unlikely event the courts do put him away after the cell door slams shut you still got no engine... Knowingly handling stolen goods is not much better than actually stealing, best way to pragmatically resolve the situation is to leave Steve out of it, he will only cause you more frustration and go get your engine off the guy who has got it.


    Keith
 
I mentioned Class action -  "then maybe we could start a "class Action" or what ever the UK equivalent is and maybe help a few of us get property back and stop others being treated the way we have been." -  I am not a lawyer so was trying to suggest a group of people taking a joint action against an individual - thanks for correcting me.

The UK police know who broke into SW workshops and took 6 engines - but as this person and SW agreed to resolve it between themselves it became a civil matter and they took no action and they will not / can not  release any details. Still only SW word that my engine was in that theft and not returned.

If I knew who he was I would try and get it back - but I don't and if I stop harassing SW then he wins again. I am happy to keep doing this on my own - just thought that others who had been cheated might like to join in.

Ian
 
there are a couple of problems going the small claims route:

firstly, there's an upper limit on how much you can claim. I can't remember off hand what it is (& it's different in England/Wales & Scotland) but I suspect a missing Jota would be above it.

Secondly, once the quick, simple & cheap process has judged in your favour you're left holding a bit of paper saying that you're owed money: it's up to you to enforce it and it doesn't matter how good a debt collector you use if the target has no money or assets...
 
This running sore continues to stink to high heaven. I've also been on the receiving end of this bloke's parallel universe and believe me, he really does not have a pot to piss in. A small claims action will achieve nothing and the opportunity to satisfactorily resolve this mess is long gone I'm afraid.

His coven of supporters value him because he is cheap and genuinely good at tuning, servicing etc but having little regard for the notion of running a 'proper business', his charges were, when I dealt with him, stupidly reasonable but there will be no paperwork, no receipt, no plan, no nothing. And he has NO business insurance, just ordinary rider cover with Carol Nash as I discovered when he was involved in a crash riding my 120 Jota. I watched him being airlifted away to hospital and felt sick to my stomach, hoping he would make a full recovery. But he is one tough cookie, checking out a day later and promised the bike would be brought back to 'a minter'. After a veritable blizzard of bullshit, excuses and avoidance tactics, I took the bike elsewhere for an eventual competent restoration. My strong impression was that he genuinely thought that ordinary laws simply did not apply to him. Cogitate on that.

As Reggie said, punters can vote with their feet and avoid him but should also strenuously warn others since there are occasionally new Laverdisti coming into the fold who innocently take their bikes to him after glowing recommendation and the whole madness starts again.
 
Dellortoman said:
Is there no such thing as FOI (freedom of information) in UK?

If not, I'm glad I live in a country founded by convicts!    ;)
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Yes, of course there is.

Why do you want to know?

What are you? Some kind of left wing commie agitator?

The people in charge know exactly what's best for you.

We've got your number matey!

 
I left a '58 Triumph T110 in the basement of a Leicester squat in 1975. When I went back the house had been demolished.

I left a KH500 Kawasaki and a Royal Enfield Turbo Twin the in the garden of a squat in London in 1984. They built a Sainsbury's on top of it!

I left a Matchless G8 in a layby in Switzerland in 1974 (crank pin had blown). I am "reliably" informed that Richard Branson found it and used it to found a second hand car business which apparently went quite well.................

Bikes eh? Nothing but heartache.
 
Harry Lime said:
I left a '58 Triumph T110 in the basement of a Leicester squat in 1975. When I went back the house had been demolished.

I left a KH500 Kawasaki and a Royal Enfield Turbo Twin the in the garden of a squat in London in 1984. They built a Sainsbury's on top of it!

I left a Matchless G8 in a layby in Switzerland in 1974 (crank pin had blown).
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I left a CB900 behind when I moved house. The bloody landlord dropped it off at my new gaff the next day.
 
Ian:

I can sympathize with you, since if someone ever beat me out of an SFC engine, I would feel terribly violated and upset....That being said, not sure about choosing this forum to vent your frustrations, however, since we are not judge and jury and cannot mete out any justice or grant any remedies. Further, the accusations you make are not the type someone would simply shrug off. You are challenging SW's livelihood, and you can expect to be hit back. I be hesitant to make such accusations without ample evidence and documentation to support your claims.

Let's say you do have such strong evidence. First problem you will confront is a procedural one: the statute of limitations. Not sure about the UK, but in the US there is a statute of limitations for bringing a breach of contract action, depending on whether the contract is written or oral. These generally range from 2 or 3 years for Oral contracts, and 3 to 5 years for written contracts. If your claim is that your property was "converted" by SW (i.e. taken for his own use) then the statute of limitations can be for an even shorter period of time, again depending on the jurisdiction. Again, I don't know what the statute of limitations in the UK is, but I would not be surprised if the laws were somewhat similar, since our laws were derived in large part from English common law.

In other words, even the best, clear cut case can be lost if too much time is wasted before filing a lawsuit. I would therefore consider immediately consulting with a UK barrister if you want any chance of seeing any legal redress.

The relation you entered into with SW is known as a "bailment". You (the "bailor")  gave possession of your bike to SW (the "bailee") but not title. Since the purpose of your doing so was for him to work on the bike, the relationship would be known as a "bailment for hire". A "bailee" is generally charged with a duty of taking reasonable care of the bailed property. They are not a guarantor, however, so if in fact the engines were stolen, SW may or may not be liable. If, for example, SW left his shopped unlocked, or made a practice of hiring unsavory characters, then perhaps he may have violated the bailment. If, on the other hand, thieves broke down his doors in the middle of the night and took your parts, he may not be liable. Whatever the facts, you should have documentation or evidence that in fact a bailment was entered into (i. e. documentation SW took possession of your items) and facts showing he was unreasonable in securing them. I suspect no barrister would be willing to take your case unless you had very clear cut documentary evidence, especially at this late date.

Again, having the most clear cut, compelling evidence does you know good if you are outside the statute of limitations.

Now, I don't know you nor SW from Adam; I don't, as we like to say here in the US, "have a dog in this fight", and I certainly don't know what took place,  but from my perspective, airing your side of things out on this site would not appear to be very productive. Doing so does nothing to preserve any legal right you may have to redress, which may or may not have already been lost. But good luck to you...
 
Im not sure such Statutes of Limitations exist in British law. Murder is murder: theft is theft. As long as the theft of the engine (and identifying number) was notified to the police back in the day then, unless subsequently recovered and the case officially closed, the engine remains stolen property. Legal title remains with the original registered owner regardless of how many hands it may have passed through. Once the owner has located it all he needs to do is notify the police and they have a legal duty to go and recover it on his behalf.
 
The point about years later recovering stolen bits is correct,if you can prove ownership.In such a small Laverda world, getting through the rego process would not be easy.I like the concept of karma.Anyone connected to this kind of stuff I like to think suffers in the long term.My guess is that will be the only result.Unless someone has a conscience attack and rolls over.I don't know how you would live with yourself anyway.
 
Gerald said:
Lothar,

Just think back of a certain person in Germany that operated in a similar way, his initials are Charly November :-X
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Hi Gerald,

that is true and I know that he was pulled to court from several people. He had to close down his business, his wife left him and the last thing I know of him is that he was a cashier in a supermarket (but that is somewhat 7 or 8 years ago). Not sure what he does today, but that is what I was told from someone that got "robbed" by him and personally saw him later on. I don't know if he had to spend time in jail or if he got away with a suspended sentence or just a penalty, but for sure he was sentenced for what he did (maybe not for everything though, else he wouldn't see daylight "unfiltered" for the next years, too...).

but you are right, there are a lot of similarities regarding taking good parts from customers bikes to make other bikes running. The difference though I see is that SW's technical reputation is still strong while CN's is proven to be -errr - "massively underdeveloped"... Just a small list of things we found in engines he "repaired" or "tuned":

-alternator cable being squeezed between the alternator covers causing a shorting (OK - can happen...)
-4C cams installed with A11 timing (missing knowledge...?)
-4C cams installed with 1 tooth out of timing (he said that was by intention to produce more torque... no words...)
-wrong jetting in the carbs (can happen, but he even mixed jets which made no sense at all...)
-engine studs mounted with cork (!), as they were pulled and would need to be helicoiled/timeserted, which he wanted to avoid. result was a leaking head gasket...
-bent crank re-mounted, which caused a bearing seat to crack
-"high quality, high compression, forged tuning pistons" to be Yamaha pistons from a 750 V2; Yamaha signs removed, they caused a 6,1:1 compression instead of the claimed 10,5:1; pistons were neither forged nor high compression nor high quality...
-to overcome the missing compression, head and barrels were machined down to a point where the cam-chain was impossible to tighten. still 6,1:1 compression... barrels and head are now paperweights, unusable...
-valve mounted with to less clearance causing the valve to "hang", which made the piston touch and bend the valve
-instead of the invoiced new valve, the old valve was straightened (!) which caused it to brake within 3km from starting the engine.
-etc. etc. etc.

This is just a short list of bullshit he did, and I am talking about 4 bikes where I have witness of. During debates on the German forum, I got information about roughly 5 other bikes with similar issues...

I know you know all that, but I think many here do not know him and it might be good to see for Ian and others that there are even more guys on the planet in our little Laverda world that do even worse things. It shows that it does not pay off, as the ones that remained are the good boys. Some of them might have their "fights" with some customers, too, but in general, I think today we know which resources are reliable and which are not.
 
I know you know all that, but I think many here do not know him and it might be good to see for Ian and others that there are even more guys on the planet in our little Laverda world that do even worse things
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Lothar - there are some dealers that may be stupid, incompetent, dim, unfriendly, inept, narcissistic, but they do not steal customer's motorcycles or parts. - Regards - Phil
 
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