SSB HVT-1 duds out

piranha-bro2

piranha-bro2

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Bought an 18H 450CCA HVT-1 SSB dry cell battery to replace the expensive super-light LiFePo I left on the shelf for too long. Bought in May last year. Rode home from the Island last Monday, stopped for fuel 5km from home - bike started perfectly, voltmeter light a nice green (13.2v - once I'd reconnected the alternator exciter wire). Parked it. Went out to start it and ride to the Vic Lav Club meeting and as soon as i hit the starter, a soft click, then nothing. Wait, repeat, same result.

Further inspection reveals a weird 'squeaking' noise from my main ignition relay (bypasses the ignition switch) each time I hit the starter button, after which everything goes dead. Holding 12.8V, but drops to 4v when i hit the starter button. Doh!!

Warranty is 12 months (gee, thanks!), so no joy there ... new one required. Who knows what's fukd up inside. Never had a 'perfectly good' battery suddenly die like that. Are batteries not what they used to be?
 
It's a Flippen expensive lottery these days when you don't get change out of $ 200 plus. They are heavy and only have limited sizes made but built to handle Harley vibes so I go Deca Gel mat. I guess there all made you know where.
 
Jason Griffiths, ex TT-rider and Triumph/Kawasaki dealer in the IOM doesn’t supply anything other than wet batteries on the basis you have no idea when the other type were first activated. I.e. they could have been sat on a shelf in a warehouse for a couple of years or so even before your supplier gets hold of them. These days i think I’m doing well if a battery lasts more than a couple of years. However, my OE fitment battery on my Beemer is still hanging in there after more than 10 years.
 
I have had a few motobatts fail on me suddenly (the last one a couple of days ago). When I first bought them I thought they were great but I am gradually replacing them on my bikes as they fail, usually just outside their warranty 🙄. I much prefer odyssey although I will be looking at wet batteries (or lawn mower batteries) in the future.
 
Andy J said:
Jason Griffiths, ex TT-rider and Triumph/Kawasaki dealer in the IOM doesn’t supply anything other than wet batteries on the basis you have no idea when the other type were first activated. I.e. they could have been sat on a shelf in a warehouse for a couple of years or so even before your supplier gets hold of them. These days i think I’m doing well if a battery lasts more than a couple of years. However, my OE fitment battery on my Beemer is still hanging in there after more than 10 years.
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Reckon you're on the money there, Andy. I had zero idea how long this SSB had been on this warehouse's shelf. I bought a little SSB for the Kwaka 250 and they come dry with the acid supplied and ready to activate - it'll hold charge for many months and always started the bike. Maybe I should get a larger version of that.
 
SSB lithium in the BM gs100 still going strong after 10 years, never not started the motor. Started the other day after 10 weeks sat idle, hjit the starter button and vroom. If I get 5 years out of the one in the Motodd I'd be happy.
 
Opposite experience here Marty, succession of failed Yuasa many years ago as it was. All i bought on faith, Yuasa. No longer. SSB have been good here overall. Treat as consumable as mentioned prior.

Quentin, of suddenly failed battery, terminal voltage indicates ok, any moderate load like lights, will see the battery voltmeter collapse, intercell connection has broken from vibration. Not that your bike vibrates, more a massage, grin.

The electrolyte conducts enough current across the broken intercell connection to give you confidence on the dash voltmeter.... the battery will most probable, indicate a charge on certain chargers. Proper load tester ( ie resistor or graphite pile ) will indicate true battery internal condition, though can be dangerous as the electrolyte can boil across the break, fumes aplenty. HTH j

*** bought exactly the same battery as you Quentin at the start of the year, factored in it was designed for Harley use... ie not a low vibration installation... i would take it to the importers as it is an early failure, if not a time demanding engagement to solve a battery claim
 
I used a nice spongy rubber mat bought from Clark Rubber under my battery to avoid the massage issue. No contact with the frame, pretty obvious but worth mentioning.
 
On the money for sure, Jon. Lights will operate but starter immediately kills everything. I'm going to test capacity today. Whatever happened, it was sudden, so a broken intercell connection is highly likely. If this has been a caused by vibes (which only really become noticeable on the SFQ above 6,000 and I rarely need to go there), then their promo spiel is crap. 'Extreme vibration resistance' it clearly states in the spiel below.

Rob, I'm loathe to pay the $350 for another 550CCA SSB LiFePo after the first one didn't even last on the shelf - and being a starting battery, if I'm out in BFN and I lse charge 9as i did last weekend) I won't have the capacity to keep the bike running. I'd rather forgeo the 6kg and have that safety margin.

Just checked after charging yesterday (even though 4amp charger showed full charge) and it's dropped to 11.4V o'nite. Not even worth continuing to fuk around with it. And not sure i want another one - maybe I'll revisit the LiFePo. At least it comes with a 2 year warranty - which would have given me a new battery in this situation.
 
Just saying Q, 10 years on the BM, never charged it and never not started the bike. My mate with GS80PD has the same battery we brought at the same time and his still going strong. Kenny got over 10 years out of his SSB lithium, now since replaced with same.
One fitted to the Motodd is still good 2 years on. I like the Lithium for the weight factor.
 
Life dice at play, some owners sail through with 'nar a problem in batteries, your not throwing the dice to please the battery deity Quentin.... does rankle when a new battery of sorts carks it out on the road. Dunno what to suggest, maybe its time to have your ride in the "twin battery" league you know like the RV and Campervans...

Can see you now, parked in the local park toasting one of the batteries for failing once too often, scaring the other into behaving... all under a camp light powered from the Laverda... Laverda RV if you fancy... twin charging control.. isolator direction switch....yes am off with fairies, digging underground power cables ( 100m in total ) then swimming pool plumbing... if the sparks dont get me the PVC primer and Solvent adhesive will...too late already it seems.... j
 
I think there might be a demand in the market for a combination mini air compressor strong enough to seat a bike tyre combined with a power bank to jumpstart bikes and charge gadgets, video cameras and such but small and lightweight.
 
Lithium batteries don't like being over-charged or discharged too much. I killed a couple of lithium batteries by inadvertently allowing them discharge too far.

Li batteries don't give much warning of impending total discharge either. Measuring the voltage doesn't tell you the state of charge. They have a flat voltage profile as they discharge, maintaining what looks like an acceptable voltage right up to when the voltage falls off a cliff at the very end. By then it's too late. The battery is Donald Ducked. Smart Li charging systems (such as in electric vehicles) don't use voltage as an indicator of charge % for exactly that reason. They calculate the charge state by monitoring the energy flowing in and out of the battery.

Quentin - I'm guessing that the discharge cycle when your charging system was inoperative is probably what killed your SSB. Seems it staggered back onto its feet to give you one or two starts before it finally croaked.

Some Li batteries have a bit of clever circuitry in them to mimic the voltage profile of a Lead-acid battery so dumb vehicle charging systems cam make sense of what the battery is doing. But as far as I'm aware, that circuitry doesn't provide any protection against flattening the battery if you do something stupid like leave the ignition switched on for several days, which is how I killed my first Li battery. The second one died when the charging system failed and I had no warning light or voltmeter on the bike.

I subsequently fitted a voltmeter and went back to the old heavy AGM lead/acid type. They're way more tolerant of unsophisticated charging systems. They also have a much higher Amp-hour rating than a similar sized Lithium, so if your charging system goes tits-up, you can go a lot further on total loss before the bike conks out.

The other reason I went away from Lithium is the fire risk. The bloody things become incendiary bombs if damaged or over-charged, and they're very difficult to extinguish.
 
Loading up the Lav and heading into Grey Lavmad land as I write, Jon, solar array and pop-up sleeping compartment fitted and ready for action!

Cam, the dry cell AGM ran the bike (basically ignition only) for about 120km and still had enough beans to start the bike when I arrived that evening (tried out of interest) and again the next morning, cold motor, cold day. So I just don't think it ever got low on capacity.

And once the alternator was feeding it again, I rode 80km to the Island track, then to the rent house and then the following day with several stops and restarts on the 250km ride home (with lights now on). Zero indication of a dud battery.

I reckon something broke inside (as Jon said, prob a broken intercell connection.

I've got a loaner identical battery from Walky (until I build his motor for him!) but may revisit the LiFePo when I have to give it back. Can you tell me what model battery you have? My old one was a LH14-BS 420CCA.
 
Re. vibes (and Vince's mention of a rubber pad) - Whilst tuning up the SF a few weeks ago I was revving it up to watch the ignition advance, then at 5k rpm the battery suddenly started jumping up and down like a teenagers right wrist. A bit of packing under the strap [to increase the strap tension] got rid of the excitement. My battery is mounted on a rubber pad - and the mass-spring system simply hit its resonance point.

Q - maybe you have a vibration problem only at a certain rpm that is otherwise invisible or un-obvious? It will be unique for your battery's mass and custom mount of course.
 
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