Starter Motors

Grant said:
Change the cog on the end of the SJCE starter and then it slips straight in to a 180.

yeah - but the cog of the Bosch is shrinked on the end while the one on the SJCE is mounted with a screw. I don't think they are interachangable, however, OCT f.e. offers 180? cogs for the SJCE...
 
You can buy the correct cog for a 180 that screws on to the SJCE shaft.
Got just that on POP.
 
Grant - I think you may have one of the SJCE s/motors that i supplied - they were fromn a Guzzi motor - but the old bosch 180 bendix assy fitted - caused a lot of confusion - the "proper" (orig Laverda)120 SJCE's had a cog on them that fitted any triple. Lothar - the drive cogs are different as the cogwheel on crankshaft is different on 120's - but same as the S2 180's -  knew this thread should have ended after 1st reply :D :D - Regards - Phil
 
Thanks Stefan much appreciated,I ll let you know how i get on.

Shaun
 
Agree entirely with Toddy,
I have done it

a standard Laverda factory supplied SJCE goes straight into a 180 and so does a Bosch go straight into a 120

The difference was that when my Bosch packed up, and was starting my "race" engine, the short arsed four eyed brummie supplied me with a brand new SJCE (which came back from USA after brother Rog closed up) and at a very good price, it fitted and worked but was only barely capable of starting the motor, which caused me to repair the Bosch one and refit it pronto, whereby normal service was resumed, this was a hard motor to start, since it had stupid compression pressures, 7C cams and 36mm carbs (no pumps) and I probably wasnt very good at getting it timed (ignirtion and cams) as I (might) be now, the worse thing was that after all that it still didnt go as well as Sheepy's ratty old 1200 which he bought from Toddy, and he wouldnt let me peep inside, what a shame that he ran it out of oil! the poke cant have just been down to the Boyer/Todd ignition, or could it?
CLEM
 
Hi Clem - Strangely enough the 7C cams should (theoretically) give the s/motor an easier time in turning the engine over as they have a lot more overlap! My old 1200 that Sheepie buggered up was the development machine for the 1st Boyer/Todd ignition system . I bought it as a virtual basket case from John Fallon and made sure it had very high compression and tons of torque in order to really test the ignition - it looked a shitter - part of the fun - it was a very rapid road machine and would wheelie on a wisp of throttle. This, unfortunately, was possibly its downfall as Ray had a mate who was really ace at wheelies and Ray used to lend it to him to practice on. I believe that, somehow unnoticed, most of the oil got lobbed out of the rear breather hose whilst bike was on its rear wheel. Ray was never known for mechanical sympathy and caned  the poor thing across europe with virtually no oil in it - result was inevitable - Regards - Phil
 
sfcpiet said:
Only found on the Breganze 750s, Henry!

Fuckin' bulletproof! :D

Ha!  Shame we can't say the same for these Densos, Piet ...  :'(  :P  :-*

Startermotor1.jpg
 
Just thought I'd post a photo of the SJCE s/motors that I put on the market in the middle to late nineties - there were over 100 of them sold - Slaters, Gijs Van Dijk & Andy Wagner amongst others used to get them from me. They have the worm that the Bosch 180 type motor bendix works on, whereas the type supplied as OE for the Laverda 120's has only a couple of flats on the shaft for a small cog. I did have a mini blunder when i 1st sold them as they had no oil seal around shaft and soon filled with oil - had to counterbore and seal every bleeding one!! - Regards - Phil
 

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Laverdalothar said:
don't the 120? and 180? have different gears on the starter engine? I was told so by your part-time boss, Piet...  ;)

No, the first of the intermediate gears fits both the Bosch AND the SJCE gear... really very simple.

It's the freewheel gears that are different, so the second intermediate fits either one OR the other...

My part-time boss don't know nothin'! :D :D

piet
 
Ventodue said:
sfcpiet said:
Only found on the Breganze 750s, Henry!

Fuckin' bulletproof! :D

Ha!  Shame we can't say the same for these Densos, Piet ...  :'(  :P  :-*

Not really the motors' fault, Craig. 

It would fare pretty well cranking a 125... :D  The dickheads in Zane just specified the wrong item!

piet
 
sfcpiet said:
Not really the motors' fault, Craig.  It would fare pretty well cranking a 125... :D  The dickheads in Zane just specified the wrong item!

Not just Zan?, Piet.  Contemporary Ducrappis too, or so I'm told ...  :o  :D
 
I rode that 1200 shitter that you talk about Phil, more than a couple of times,and bloody hell it was easilly the best road 1200 I have ever tried, but it wasnt me doing the wheelies, it did take a very long time, but Sheepy eventually admitted that he might not have refilled with oil, while doing a service prior to that trip into Belgium.It surprised me that the bike ran for 120 miles or so after having had an oil change, drain plug back in, but maybe no oil.For a while there were many who were convinved that 1200's can ,just dump all their oilI was never one of them, because when his bike stopped the outside was bone dry, no oil showing anywhere, and later back in Swanley, with the cam cover off for a day, his garage still smelt like someone was burning rubber and oil inside it with the door shut, the whole thing even smelt when Steve had it apart for the rebuilt, which following completion,Ray restored the whole bike, I helped him lift the motor into position, it is still in his lounge being used as a bookshelf and the motor is still not bolted in, just left resting.
CLEM
 
CLEMTOG said:
I rode that 1200 shittet that you talk about Phil, more than a couple of times,and bloody hell it was easilly the best road 1200 I have ever tried, but it wasnt me doing the wheelies, it did take a very long time, but Sheepy eventually admitted that he might not have refilled with oil, while doing a service prior to that trip into Belgium.It surprised me that the bike ran for 120 miles or so after having had an oil change, drain plug back in, but maybe no oil.For a while there were many who were convinved that 1200's can ,just dump all their oilI was never one of them, because when his bike stopped the outside was bone dry, no oil showing anywhere, and later back in Swanley, with the cam cover off for a day, his garage still smelt like someone was burning rubber and oil inside it with the door shut, the whole thing even smelt when Steve had it apart for the rebuilt, which following completion,Ray restored the whole bike, I helped him lift the motor into position, it is still in his lounge being used as a bookshelf and the motor is still not bolted in, just left resting.
CLEM

Yes, that was fun. Ray turned up at home on a Sunday evening with the bike on the back of a belgian breakdown lorry asking if we could drive him with the bike on a trailer to Calais. I'd had too much to drink to drive so we hitched the bike on the trailer and my then wife Charlotte and maybe one of the boys drove off to Calais and the ferry.
Ciao
Paul
 
Hmmm - Sheepie never mentioned that he MAY have forgotten to put the oil in it!! I expect I had "Slick 50" in it - we had a load of freebies from when we did the testing for them at "Motodd" -  which would have held up for a while - 120 miles is pretty good. i would have thought that even Sheepie would have noticed the odd sump full of oil on his rear tyre so the "I forgot" seems a lot more likely - Regards - Phil
 
120 miles without oil is astonishing  :o

I took a mate's BSA A10 for a ride after he'd spent all morning polishing it to a gleaming shine. He'd also given it an oil change earlier that day. He should have spent more time thinking about what he was doing rather than polishing it because he forgot to refill it with fresh oil. I got about 500m down the road before it went bang. I could see that there was no oil in it because the con-rod had made a nice viewing window in the front of the crankcase.

Cheers,
Cam
 
Dellortoman said:
120 miles without oil is astonishing  :o

Not really, Cam.

Couple of years ago, at their annual meeting, the swiss Laverda club organised a "raffle" to raise funds for a member that couldn't afford a Laverda.  He "donated" his 550(?) Suzuki air-cooled 4-cylinder and drained the oil.   The objective was to tip how long would it rev at or above the redline!

After 5 mins at around 9500rpm, the headers started glowing, after 10mins it was still screaming its guts out!  The guys were absolutely relentless, 5 mins further on, the smoke and the stench in the hall was burning our eyes.  To speed things up, a burnout was attempted, adding even more smoke!  The tyre soon gave up, but, at idle, the thing still ticked over like a sewing machine!  That's when they attacked the poor thing with sledgehammers and axes...

A television motoring magazine once wanted to check the claims of one of those "snake oil" offerings of oil additives.  This particular company claimed that, once coated with their product, the engine could be drained of oil and would continue running while being hosed with water from beneath.  One car pulled from a breakers yard was thus treated, another not.  Both were drained of their engine oil, one was sent out into traffic, the other started lapping the Hockenheim race circuit.  Don't remember which was the treated car, but the "race" car gave up after around 120 km of high speed laps of the circuit, the car in stop and go traffic blew at 140km... draining the cooling liquid would probably have sped things up a bit! :D

piet
 
Stefan
Whats the best way of getting the end cap screws off they are very soft and on rock solid,ok for an impact screwdriver?

Shaun
 
Nippon Denso
Only found on the Breganze 750s, Henry!

Fuckin' bulletproof! Grin

Not if the starter engages at 7000rpm - Ends up dumping the internals like Cigarette Ashes. Happened to me with a new 71/72 SF. Accidentally hit the Starter button and KA-POOF! Cost me $900 to order a Nippon Denso from Italy with a 6 month waiting time. I've since grounded the solenoid through the neutral Sx so the starter will only engage in Neutral. Can't say what really caused the explosion but did find the Starter Clutch backing plate loose (Common on 750's) - Whether it caused the engagement when the starter Sx was hit or was damaged during the explosion.
 
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