The perennial clutch question

C

cwis

Full member
Hi all, my bitza has a very light clutch.

Actually - that is a complete lie. It's heavy alright. I can now lie on the kitchen floor, stick my clutch hand under the fridge, palm up, and lift the fridge off the ground by closing the hand....

But it does get a bit tiring on longer rides.

I've tried some of the normal options - the extended clutch lever was nice, but meant a mid ride cable adjustment as the engine got hot or neutral became impossible to find.

The standard lever is in there at the moment (and a tip - the ball bearing at the lever end was actually ovoid and had worn a cup in the lever - replace the ball and file that cup out to make initial pull a lot smoother).

I've replaced and routed the cable for maximum ergonomics rather than for asthetics. I've got a Yamaha R1 clutch lever and pivot on the way from eBay to play with, the clutch basket is free of notches..... Any tricks I'm missing?

Best regards,

Chris
 
Hey Chris

Hydraulic clutch conversion ............. :P

                Cheers
                        Matt
 
My expierance is just get used to it. I have ridden both the manual clutch and the hydraulic clutch and my sense is that there is very little improvement.
I might suggest you check how the cable is routed. Make sure all the bends are wide and gentle.
 
mar said:
My expierance is just get used to it. I have ridden both the manual clutch and the hydraulic clutch and my sense is that there is very little improvement.
Click to expand...

Hello,

I would tend to agree - The hydraulic version is a bit lighter but now I am forced to use the Jota (due to theft of daily commuter bike) daily up the A20 to London my hand is struggling a bit in the traffic. My clutch unit is A1 as well so I guess you have to put up with it if you are using a hydraulic version.

Best regards,

David
 
Hi Chris

you might want to try lightening up the spring pressure on the clutch plates, there are a couple of different spring rates available. When I had the "SFC" clutch springs in, might as well be tring to lift that fridge you were mentioning. I got a so called "lighter" set of clutch springs from Wolfgang, did make a difference.

what I wound up doing on my 79 1200 was lighter clutch springs, hydraulic clutch conversion, a modern Brembo remote reservoir master cylinder sourced from Wolfgang (he picked the size for light effort clutch actuation), braided clutch line, and a CRG multi adjustable clutch lever. Honest, the clutch is now a one or two finger actuation, probably lighter effort than teh cable clutch on my 2008 Kawasaki ZX14. I was so excited I did exactly hte same changes to my 84 RGS, although the RGS was already hydraulic, I changed everything else to same spec as my 79 1200, then on my 84 high comp "1200" RGS I had to go to heavier clutch springs to combat clutch slip, but clutch effort is still light even with teh heavier springs, and spacers under the springs to further increase spring pressure....

CRG can be found here, they make really nice stuff. Even if you stayed with cable actuation, you might want to consider either the GP or Supersport clutch perches/levers with variable leverage settings  http://www.constructorsrg.com/levers/index.html

Paul LeClair
 
Those levers in the link are very nice Paul....very nice indeed.

Even checking the different leverage ratios available on the shelf at a local shop can help.
You'd be surprised how much difference there can be in "normal" lever sets - there's no standard ratio.

I got caught sorting a customer bike when it appeared the clutch could not be made to disengage...
Turned out he'd fitted a set of levers which caught his eye - but which were a higher leverage ratio
and just did not give enough cable travel.
 
Blimey Paul! Their stuff looks like jewelry....

Hmm. Now I've got the standard lever back in, I'll wait for the R1 lever to turn up, and measure how much pull and what lever pressure it gives me, but do nothing otherwise, short term. Lets see if I get used to it!

I'll ask Wolfgang about the weaker springs, because my clutch has never got anywhere near slipping.

Oh - and I'll keep lubing that cable!

If I win the lottery maybe a hydraulic conversion would be on the cards - sadly other (bikey) things have precedence first - namely rear shocks!

Thanks all,

Chris
 
every time Wolfgang sees one of my triples he makes disaproving noises about all the obviously non standard CRG stuff on it. Check out their mirrors, gorgeous.... I use there Hindsight Lane Splitter mirrors, even had a set on my now former 1971 SFC 750 8000 series to Wolfgang's horror :D Check out there new "Arroow" mirrors.    http://www.constructorsrg.com/mirrors/hindsight_ls.html

Paul LeClair

 
Mmmm. I like the Hindsight mirrors..... Looks like they sell stuff in the UK too - http://www.fasterbydesign.co.uk/mirrors.asp

Tempting....
 
Is your new cable nylon lined? If you lube it use very thin oil (e.g. CRC) My road SF has the orig lever, and careful adjustment avoids having to adjust it mid ride. I have a lever setup from  Z900 on my other one, it has a great takeup range, is light and the lever has a really wide bearing surface, no wear 20 years on. Non-standard though but I just don't care as I don't need that fridge trick.
 
At the risk of sounding like a pipe smoking old fart I can't see what everyone's problem is.  OK, the clutch is heavy, but it's hardly a major issue as far as I'm concerned, the QA throttle is much more of a problem.  And before I get shot down in flames I did use the bike for four years when I lived in London* (including a spell dispatch riding with it - big mistake).  Just practice crushing billiard balls.

* Which included am interesting ride from Stockwell to Croydon without a clutch, in the afternoon rush hour to get a replacement cable for the snapped one...
 
To tough for me,I read an article in I think Classic Bike mentioning some mod done by a bloke in Pommeyland called Phil somethink and the next day I rang him from Oz to get the details.I had struggled for years with pins and needles in my hand and wrist,made an attempt to fit a dirtbike gadget between the origanal cable and the lever that increase the leverage ratio,stupidly complected with lots of broken cables.It took a 150mm long extra cable to mount it.This Phil bloke gave me the details,this was before the extended lever kit was available,I made my own and suddenly I was pain free and as an added bonus I haven't broken a clutch cable since,20 years maybe.I used to brake one at least ever 6 months,mine was bloody hard.It works very well for me,I hear others have problems with variable take ups.I love mine
 
cwis said:
I've tried some of the normal options - the extended clutch lever was nice, but meant a mid ride cable adjustment as the engine got hot or neutral became impossible to find.


Chris
Click to expand...
I've the extended lever and it works just fine. I find the clutch hard but not extremely so.  It really is something you get used to. My mountainbiking past make that i've pretty strong fingers, but i still need a hammer to drive nails in a wooden block...
It's never going to be an easy bike in city traffic, so i try to anticipate as much as possible to slip it into neutral instead of holding the clutch for a few minutes. And then always keep your wrist straight when keeping the clutch in. The blood can circulate better and you'll be able to keep your grip for longer.

You do need to check more regularly if the clutch is set right, and do this with more precision. With a longer lever, you pull the clutch plates not as far apart as with a standard lever, you'd need a different lever at the handlebars to compensate for that, one that pulls more cable
 
Strip out the two rods and ball bearing,clean them,clean inside the opening rod tunnel,pipe cleaners are very good lightly grease put back together,buy a T160 cable (old model) slight filing to the nipple to fit,smooth as a baby's bum :D :D :D :D :D
 
Hmm - interesting. My issue with the extended clutch lever was that the clutch dragged pretty badly when the engine was hot, if the cable was set with a tiny bit of slack when the engine was cold.

Obviously setting the cable hot is not an option, as then you are tensioning the cable while the engine warms up. The clutch won't slip (or mine didn't) but you are pushing the ball bearing into contact with the clutch arm, which is contacting the pushrod, the other ball bearing, the other pushrod, which is attached to the clutch, which is spinning.

I'd imagine wear would start to build up fairly quickly in these components!

Using a (hand) lever with a dog-leg would probably allow you to pull more cable though - normally the end of the lever hits the bar...

I don't see the point however of using a lever with a different pivot point that "gears up" the clutch cable, because you're effectively making the clutch heavier again after "gearing it down" at the other end using an extended actuation lever.

Unless the extended actuation levers available are simply too long? They have to be a certain length for the end of the lever to clear the top of the engine casing, but mine was well clear of this. Perhaps that is another option - shorten it as far as feasible to get the lightest clutch possible with the standard handlebar lever, whilst removing the requirement to adjust the clutch mid ride.

Chris


Mingh said:
cwis said:
I've tried some of the normal options - the extended clutch lever was nice, but meant a mid ride cable adjustment as the engine got hot or neutral became impossible to find.


Chris
Click to expand...
I've the extended lever and it works just fine. I find the clutch hard but not extremely so.  It really is something you get used to. My mountainbiking past make that i've pretty strong fingers, but i still need a hammer to drive nails in a wooden block...
It's never going to be an easy bike in city traffic, so i try to anticipate as much as possible to slip it into neutral instead of holding the clutch for a few minutes. And then always keep your wrist straight when keeping the clutch in. The blood can circulate better and you'll be able to keep your grip for longer.

You do need to check more regularly if the clutch is set right, and do this with more precision. With a longer lever, you pull the clutch plates not as far apart as with a standard lever, you'd need a different lever at the handlebars to compensate for that, one that pulls more cable
Click to expand...
 
My extended lever at the sprocket cover is 50% longer than standard between pivot points, it just clears the case.
It does sound strange that increasing the ratio at the handlebar lever is ok I agree. With a new cable and everything greased it was as light as a bike from the orient. I had a lot to go with, it gives it a really good take-up, admittedly slightly heavier but no trouble in traffic. No bike should be held in gear with the clutch in more than absolutely necessary. With my setups the bikes are very easy to go into neutral at a standstill. I see no reason why a triple wouldn?t be the same as my twins.
 
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