To Live The Speed Cleverly

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You know guys whatever I write is my view from where I stand        pro Laverda not thru bias or illusion

I had some great times at Bromyard with Richard  who I consider was never the architect of these events'
in my opinion he was always left to pick up the peices.

If you want a part and you need it quick -----give Richard a call and it's on it's way-----

no point  asking me if your in a rush to get it thru your letter box ----first I gotta find it -----

then I'll forget to post it ---------f**kin'  useless hippie biker  !

and if you want to how when or why etc.  

ask here where a lot of Laverda men share the joys of Laverda

and the more you know about Laverdas   -----the more you will love 'em
 
Hi Crispen
          I am sure that is fitting that we discuss these things in an open forum of Laverda enthusiasts. In your previous post (one before your last response)  you seemed to hold the view that my whole "case" rested on the fact that the bikes were expensive in the UK and that I should get back to my hippie biker story. You also took the oppurtunity to point out  (from a business perspective) why this possibility would not have been taken seriously.
I think my reply states clearly that your assumption that I held such a naive view was incorrect ..... indeed I had stated (early in the thread) that I considered myself to have a fairly broad view of "Laverda" whilst making it clear that I was in no way claiming to be a FIGJAM (good word that) and that I was happy to discuss anything I wrote with any interested parties. I claim no infallibility  or unique expertise.
Having corrected your erroneous assumption I did address your four points

in the first one I believe I clearly stated  my view of what I believed to be a a very significant event in the Laverda  story ---indeed probably the most crucial juncture in the decline and demize of the Laverda Factory.
I do believe that high prices not only in the UK but ,it appears just about everywhere but Holland , will have had a very real and lasting effect on the profitability and viability of Moto Laverda.---- Now I realise that some people may choose to misinterpret or  dismiss this as an anti Slater rant--------but how can I correct your ,to my mind, invalid assumptions and assertions without the mention of Slater or indeed the mention of other Laverda importers worldwide ?

Now, having replied to your original offhand dismissal of my viewpoint in what I considered to be a well reasoned and well meaning fashion I was a little surprised at what you said "your point was ... in the next reply            "the point I was trying to make is that you string a very very long bow between the dealings in the UK and US with Slaters and the overall downfall of the company"               whilst your original "dismissal"  was based on your assumption                      " I think eveyone get's the picture on your views about the markups at bromyard and others in the UK " ,  

Now while my  replies thus far adressed your original misunderstanding of my views and misconstru-ing  of my motives   ( My view is not a simplistic ,naive easily dismissable folly nor is it an anti Slater motivated rant )------ not anti anyone rant come to that .------however you seem to be again missing the point I am making and by making reference to conversations / interviews with Massimo Laverda and others to support your standpoint.......you again leave me in a position (as you did previously)  where it would be virtually impossible to enlighten you regarding my viewpoint, and correct what I believe are your misinterpretations of the situations you refer to without my mentioning the importers and the events that occured.
       My last couple of posts  ----- and indeed this one-------are bound to contain references to the various parties involved in order to respond to your posts -----I hope that you will not acuse me of ranting ........
If you read through our recent posts with an open mind you would see that the interviews you quote from completely tally with my whole basic interpretation and explanation of the Laverda History from Jarama to RGS ---- the period where the fate of Laverda was sealed ---when Massimo Laverdas modesty ,trust ,loyalty and faith would lead him and Breganze into despair.

Now if anyone wants to believe that the quantity of Breganze's True motorcycles sold worldwide was not adversely affected by the activities and margins of importers world wide, I would suggest that it is you that has a naive simplistic view of the situation and that is you that cannot see the  all to obvious truth that these machines could have competed on price against anything on world markets and gained a following large enough to sustain the long term viability of the Laverda Factory -----are you blind ?

Surely by now SOMEONE can understand  that by believing Slaters claims to have the facilities and dealer network needed to distribute the bikes in the USA ,that by producing bikes JARAMAS for sale in America ---(which properly marketed by the cash rich established network of the ex BMW importers and Alfa Romeo re-launchers ,would have established the marque in the USA between the time of the Jaramas and the RGS )---- that were sold in England and which must have constituted a fair proportion of the money (I do know the amounts involved) the Factory lost when it's English and American importers Roger Slater Motorcycles Ltd , went bump one day ,shrugged their shoulders and with an "innocent"  little whistle became Slater Bros (motorcycles)  the next day -----and no-one noticed cos everyone thought  it already was Slater Bros. and then a bloke with blue hair turns up  -----hey not just a double cross a triple x

Crispen !   Guys  !  Just open your eyes, look at your lovely Laverdas and decide who gets the round of applause   -------because if I hear lets have a big hand(no need to mention)   I am going to throw up !!    --------or maybe I am in the wrong place ---------

-------Crispin  ------I am sorry I just don't know how I could respond to your posts and not mention Slaters ------Massimo Laverda was a great man who chose the wrong guy for the right reasons
and it was to cost him, his Family ,Breganze and motorcyclists world wide a heavy price.
I think it is important to consider the way we see our True Motorcycles and the True motorcyclist that made 'them
                     Breganze Heart Beating

------I would like to get back to Live the Speed Cleverly and tell you guys  nicer stuff about adventures on True Motorcycles   from great times in Bromyard  to  mountain pass magic with Massimo  Laverda stood on his footrests shouting "That's my Motorcycle !! and laughing like a maniac chasing my Brettoni Jota which couldn't resist showing off a little bit for Massimo Laverda Motorcyclist.
 
The bloke with the blue hair was it turns out ----Keith Davis of 3X motorcycles who was present at the meetings with the soon to be recievers ------Me ,Chalky , and Brian had to count and list every part in the place
-----a total of 100,000  GBP  worth of spares at Factory price   or 500,000   GBP at Slater retail------

Sold to Slater Bros Motorcycles with fixtures,fittings and goodwill     for 40,000  which is the recievers fee by some strange co-incidence
 
------Factory told that Slaters been "wound up"    -- and don't get paid the large amount owed

   Factory with no money , no importer in USA  or UK to sell bikes  -when 3X  turn up as if outa the blue and offers to sell bikes but says he can't sell bikes if no spares network and  gets Slaters appointed as spares Importer while 3X become the bike importer  for the RGS etc  which attracted lots of free publicity for 3X    who moved a salesman upto Bromyard  to run showroom .Quite often sold Harleys to people who came to look at Laverdas  ------proper   crock 'o'shite  -----but probably not affecting fortunes of Factory  -------not f**kin much   !!   I was there  --not guessing   ----seeing and hearing.

 
The story of Massimo standing on the pegs shouting reminds me of a sory about Nuvolari. In one of the GPs of the 30s when he was outclassed by the Germans IIRC he was seen leaning out over the windscreen, beating on the hood ,shouting at the car to go faster.
 
fascinating stories and interview

it is still apparent, in america, the marketing of the marque was piss poor at best.
most folks have never heard of a laverda. those that have think they only made jotas
(one reason so many are painted orange and offered as "jota" on ebay,
it brings more money to the seller).

yes, this was (and still is) a very lucrative market if marketed correctly
just look at what the silly ducati's bring

the appointment of slater as the usa distributor instead of the bmw distributor
pretty much killed market awareness of the marque. the lack of financial muscle
(and the skill to us it) may have made the difference.

even when a 750SFC won national road racing championships in WERA and CRRC
nobody knew outside the road racing circle

having worked in a variety of independent shops i don't see stevio's experiences
as a wrench being out of the ordinary.

i bought my first laverda in '75 or '76, a dark blue '74 SF2. seller wouldn't even let me test ride it...i had to ride pillion. $2500. after a while i was looking for more grunt and inquired (at the shop with the laverda racers) about getting more power out of the twin. he told me the 750's are pretty rare... instead of modifying it i should consider a 1000 and he just happened to have taken one in trade against a new jota :-) so my SF2 and $1000 bought me a '75 3C in '78. parts came from the laverda dealer in ft. worth (bmw of ft. worth),  european cycle specialties in california, a dealer in georgia, slater, and lance weil. i rode it everywhere in every kind of weather.

i worked for a time at a brit bike dealer. there was never any shortage of triumphs and nortons to fix top end on this one, gearbox in that one. the laverda never broke. oh yeah, i'd run the battery down on a regular basis and was quite good a bump starting it but hey, it looked like a street fighter race bike and push starting fit the image. i was fine with that. used to run up to austin to party at the clubs on 6th street. back the bike in and go drink some beer and talk up the ladies. come out later and all the other bikes would be lined up next to me. not just some, but all the bikes on the street. amazing.

if i got too fucked up or convinced a gal to bed me i'd just ring a wrecker driver i knew, with a flat bed truck, load up the triple and have it sent where i could collect it the next morning. life was simple

still have that 3C

cheers,
scott
 
Hey Scott,
Uncanny, I bought my first Laverda in 1976, it was a 2nd hand dark blue SF2.
Was in a Yamaha dearler's showroom near Breakfast Creek.
Did not even bother taking it for a ride.

X-File stuff.
Red

 
Hmm, in '76 I had two Honda XL dual sport bikes and had yet to figure out that there was anything better. I had though already found that speed on the road was more to my liking than speed in the dirt!
 
Crispen ---Lover of Laverda---- please consider this carefully

Now although you are saying that you think my "To Live The Speed Cleverly"  had become an anti Slater rant  and I should get back to the bikes ---- I think that the evidence you chose to present against my considered opinion really leaves me no option other than to bring "Slaters"  into the discussion yet again !
As you quite rightly pointed out ,from a businessman's perspective , the Factory wasn't getting income from the USA in the 1980s,  and so you drew the conclusion that it couldn't be that that had caused or contributed to the demise of Moto Laverda -------the Factory certainly would have got income from the USA if they had gone with ex BMW importer with an established Dealer network and investment capital. ......or even if the Jarama Models (production figures available, Correct me if I am wrong made specifically for the North American market on the basis of  Roger Slaters apparently groundless  projections)  had actually been sold in North America and the money had been paid to the Factory, then  the RGS   would have been launched into a market that had  a Laverda Dealer network (as promised) to a   Laverda conscious public in the worlds largest marketplace .
Then by 1984 when Massimo was interviewed regarding production figures of the RGS I think he may have painted a very much brighter picture (I am confident that the Laverda RGS would have sold well if properly marketed especially at a competitive price ).
So whilst it may be true that there was no income from the USA -------I think it is plain to see that it wasn't actually meant to be that way and that once again the achievments of Massimo Laverda are made in spite of rather than because of S.....(better not say it I'll get in trouble)
Now then combine this  post with the one about American spec. bikes coming to England , and the one about the winding up of Slaters  .............Now I maybe only a hippie biker ,and I am happy to listen to any counter arguments-----but remember this hippie biker rides a Laverda and has done for a long time
 
..........and this hippie biker sat in the mountains and listened to Massimo Laverda crying about what was happening to his RGS all over the world not about the money , not about the business ,about the bike and about the people of Breganze who trusted and followed him and what were they all going to do now.





                                            Breganze Heart Beating


                                           
 
Scott that's a great story.
I was very heavy into bikes in the 70s and 80s-racing and street- and I never saw but  a few Laverdas (probably less than 10 in 15 years). Slater brought their bikes to Daytona for the Superbike race in 76 IIRC and they were stored in the shop I was hanging out in. They didn't finish as I remember. Ricky Racer was there too but they didn't do much better.
There was a small shop in Gainesville that had one SFC on the floor in 1975. It was over $3000USD. They didn't last but about a year. Cycle Specialties in Athens ,Ga was a dealer I later found. I think they still have some parts.
  A friend bought a new 82 Jota 120 from the guys in Athens and rode it some around here but then he moved north. That was the only Jota 120 I ever saw or heard of in the US.
I think you can say without fear of contradiction that the dealer network did not exist in the USA. I thought Continental went out of business in '76 and they had been the importer. Slater was on the west coast in the '80s but unless you had some personal knowledge you never knew he existed.
The Marque deserved better.
 
There are lots of aspects of this thread that have made me smile to myself.
For the past 16 years I`ve been in the vehicle manufacturing business , selling primarily to the US, but also to the rest of the world. Whilst establishing my  brands in foreign markets I`ve negotiated numerous distributor agreements, set up dealerships, travelled hundreds of thousands of air miles and become quite astute at dealing with the myriad problems which beset a small business. As well as all this tedious commercial stuff I`ve had to keep on top of the technical aspect of the product, constantly developing the engineering aspect of what we do and staying abreast of modern technological developments in material technology.
I`ve driven trucks across Europe laden with product hoping that the dealer will pay me in cash so that I can buy the fuel for the journey home . I`ve had shipments impounded by US customs and had to knock on the door of a bail bondsman at 2am in the morning so that I can get my shipment cleared in time for a trade show he following day. In short I`ve accrued a fair amount of commercial experience over the years.
Despite all this experience [which I reckon makes me something of an expert at what I do] people still presume to come up to me and advise me where I`m going wrong and how I should be running my business. The tell what's wrong with my designs, my marketing, my colour schemes, they tell where and how I should be selling my products. 
The common thread which bonds all these experts is that they have never set up a manufacturing company , never designed a product, never travelled abroad to win export sales, never juggled the precarious finances of a growing business and never orchestrated a product launch. Despite this , somehow they know exactly how it should be done. They must incredibly gifted to know  this stuff without ever having done it, and I must be incredibly lucky to have come this far without having the benefit of their business acumen and hindsight forsight  .  :D :D :D
If only there had been internet forums around during the heyday of Laverda, Massimo could have canvassed all the expertise being bandied about on this thread and Laverda would have continued to flourish and thrive! :D :D
 
The much I like to know historic truth - isn't the rest of our (Laverda-) life happening in the present and future?

As much as I can say that without having had the chance to learn to know him really, Massimo seams to have been a great character, taking the responsibility for the decission taken and almost got nuts about the fact that "he destroyed the fathers factory", which is not the full truth aboviously but also not 100% wrong (like your expression, Stevio, of "trusting the wrong people for the right reasons", but also taking some wrong decissions from todays standpoint).

If a company like Laverda, that was one of the largest employer in the 70's in their area, goes bankrupt, there is much more than just one reason for that. For sure it was at least some dealers that behaved wrong and held Laverda responsible for their faults, sucked out the last drop of blood out of them. It also was a missing contract from the military for the 4-wheel truck. But it also was spending money on new projects without realizing them like water-cooled engines. F.e. what really got into production from the "rolling test-lap" called V6? Nothing. No V2, no V4, no water cooled Tripple or twin - nothing! They invested into development of 600ccm and 900ccm 4 Cylinders. Have they been brought to market? No. These three examples (V6, 4-Zylinder motors, 4-wheel trucks) have been an investment of roughly 14 Million Deutschmarks with no return. I am not sure but would doubt that Slaters cost them more. Am I wrong?
 
The bottom line is the demise of Moto Laverda is a sad tale, whichever way you look at it.

Personally I find no joy or comfort in looking back for answers or laying any blame?.. It?s gone.

All things must pass, that includes the nice thing too I'm afraid....

The only thing that any of us can do now to make sure that the sadness isn?t the end of the story is to get out there and ride our bikes.

Vivere la velocit? con intelligenza (To live the speed cleverly). That?s what it said on the poster of my RGS when it was new, so that?s what I?m gonna do.

T.
 
Bob I agree  ...i hear ... 'if only your company had done this/that or the other' ! And this to me who is an enthusiastic employee can be frustrating. I am not the man at the top who has put his whole life on the line (and family/workforce) to follow his dream. However at least these 'experts' are usually enthusiastic about the product, as the uninterested don't bother to 'give you the benefit of their advice'.

The thing for me here, with this thread, are the 'nuggets of gold' that can be taken. Understanding that these are one mans words and experiences. But from our part of the Laverda story in the UK a unique one.

I was a naive 14 yr old kid in the 70's who knew of only the physical joy i felt when i heard then saw my first Laverda. Even the name was evocative! That memory has remained, it displaced numerous other bikes that could have done the same, but didn't. We all tread different paths to end up at this destination, it took 30 years for me to own my own. I have other bikes, yes some are Japanese, and I enjoy them for what they are. But nothing comes closer than a Laverda for representing to me what motorcycles are about.

Laverda... produced with passion, and owned with passion, and long may it be.

Howard
 
20 20 Hind sight,knowbody knew better than those that wore where the Buck stopped at the time,but after 20 years its a different sight line.What couda wooda,its a shame some of the dreams didn't materialise,
how many times did Ducati come close,still here with Guzzi and MV.And by the way in my game all it takes is one lune of an unreasonable  client and with 7 years of liability a successful business can be brought down easy,seen it done a couple of times.
 
I reckon that it isn't just bikes that suffered from the problems associated with importers., I would think lots of things have over the years.  It was different all those years ago when a Company literally conceeded all it's rights to operate or whatever in the territory of the "Concessionaire"..
------it was a bigger world altogether , not so many years ago , before borders melted away and technology  opened up communication channels .

I wrote the above last night ---but didn't post it until later----- after Bob made his last posting adviising us all of his business experiences  he ,apparently uniquely(or thereabouts) has--- qualifying him to pass judgement .
I think that ,after looking at Bob's list of "qualifications"  to have that opinion --I have to say that I have really trod similar paths , in many ways  in my journey through life . Perhaps we differ in many ways ----for me ,as I have tried to explain , ----it was all about bikes ----then--- Laverdas.  I think I pretty much just laid my position out ---openly explaining my views and how I came to hold them---knowing that some people would fairly and rightly challenge them --and that virtual vultures ----would scan what I said ---eager to swoop and pick holes-----with smart-arsed one liners or whatever------I knew I would face accusations from all manner of people-------for all manner of reasons-------whenever I was "challenged"  I (hope I) have responded with respect ,clarity and courtesy------I have tried to illustrate my view of times,people and events in a way that invited people to look at their own experiences of times, people and events in Laverda history and come to their own conclusions as to whether it could--would--should have been different ....and even if it matters. -----I believe I have managed to make my "message" heard by many in this imperfect medium
Bob---while I have indeed done many similar things in my journey as those espoused in your post ----the reason ,the ways the means and the ends were the same thing "the bike"------I presume that your quest on your journeys was in pursuit of money....This whole string isn't about how we view the business of Laverda it's about how we view the bikes of Laverda-and- the motorcyclist that made them ---- the Factory has gone --I know--- any references to any company or person was made only to illustrate what I was trying to say----most of the references I made were in response to another Laverdistis statement or challenge.What I have said was intended to enhance and extend the joys and appreciation of Massimos true motorcycles and of Massimo Laverda ----the greatness of the man and the machines is ,in my opinion, diminished and demeaned by the potted history currently doing the rounds and I have sought to change what I see as unjust,===== other Laverda men and women will decide the outcome.      and to end on a lighter note----with no intent of malice or offence-----a bit of Laverda advice for Bob----"keep it a bit longer---it will be worth more money-----and in the meantime you can be seen on it"
 
I just red through the article posted by Crispin (thanks for that btw!!) and some very interesting stuff...:

a) Massimo talked 1984 about a desire of the customers to go back to classic bikes and beeing fed up with high tech bikes they can not service themselfs or afford to get serviced. Interestingly, he was ahead of the market if you see that f.e. the SR 500 was put back onto the Market in the 90's (upgraded now with two disks in front), thinking of the Honda Clubman 500, going into this century with it's Retro-Bikes. Very interesting...!!  :D

b) he talked about the midsize market (600ccm) to be the future. What happened mid/end of the 90's? All Jap companies invested into that segment (bevor almost only 750ccm and 1.000 or 1100 ccm bikes, then more and more 600 and 900ccm bikes. Think of the Yamaha Diversion series or the Bandits etc.. I am surprised he saw this comming 10 years before I must say... :o

c) Massimo says it: to many different bikes have been produced, even more prototypes have been developed and never brought to market. Sure they learned a lot of each, but that is not giving you money in return to pay your people...

D) I forgott the 350ccmm/500ccm 3 cylinder 2 stroke, which was not the right bike at the right time as we all know today: emission regulations made it obsolete, at least for the German market. Almost no bigger 2-Stroke bikes have been released after 1984 anymore in Germany except the 80ccm ones for the 16 years old ones, which Laverda had - I think - no offering for; In my schoole-class, nearly everyone had either a DT/RD, MB/MBX or the likes at that time. Almost none of them are riding bike today...

very interesting article. thanks again for posting it!!


 
Bob I also think that if we had had the forums it would have made a differnce ----indeed this very forum is "living proof" of the differnce it would have made ----I am pretty sure that Massimo would have been much more aware of the way the bikes were being marketed ,treated and used.
I am pretty sure that "someone"  wouldn't have said to me in 1980 (with his fingers on the carb synch screws of a Jota)  "These are set at the Factory ---and you never mess with them---and the mixture screws are 2 turns  out (all bikes/models) "

and I wouldn't have said " oh! so that is why all the old test reports say they are pigs to start, don't tick over and run rough till you  get'em going -----we better put them right then  ,"

of course it would have been better with forums.

You can all find fault,pick holes and do whatever you like  (I sure some would if they could)

.......my friend said that Americans would understand what I mean when I say "Don't bring a knife to a gunfight !"       
 
I`m afraid Steve that I have no idea where this thread is going anymore! I'm familiar with the the knife to a gunfight expression but cannot for the life of me comprehend how it might apply to this discussion. One thing though, my boo rating seems to increase every time I contribute to this thread!  :D The one-sided nature of this discussion and the way folks seem to so readily accept uncorroborated comments has demonstrated the very worst aspect of internet forums.
 
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