Too many gadgets in new vehicles?

Many years ago, when I was maybe 6 or 7, my Dad was looking at buying a Car; even today they are so beautiful. It was a Karmann Ghia. I was waiting in the Beetle we owned, and it was a typical mid-summer Sydney day, bloody hot. My Dad had wound the windows down, and the plan was not to be too long. Out of curiosity, I decided to wind the windows up just to see how hot it would get in an enclosed car in full sun. It got pretty hot, so did my Dad when he came back to find what my experiment was. My bum also got hot from the whack I got. It scared him a lot; we both learned something that day: a family of 5 won't fit in a Karmann Ghia and kids do dumb shit. Karmann Ghias still appeal to me, nothing special performance-wise, but they are stunners in the looks department.
 
While I have enjoyed much of what has been said, one thing that has been missed is the repair bills of much of this new tec.
A couple of you tube vids high lighted the repair costs after a low speed front crash. [I generally take Ytube with a grain of salt]
Much of the sensors are located in the front bumper bar requiring expensive recalibration costs.
Resulting in the car becoming an insurance right off. And in some cases having the ins. claim rejected.

And now I read that the ability to control speed is real, new cars already have the soft wear necessary.
 
Ian D said:
While I have enjoyed much of what has been said, one thing that has been missed is the repair bills of much of this new tec.
A couple of you tube vids high lighted the repair costs after a low speed front crash. [I generally take Ytube with a grain of salt]
Much of the sensors are located in the front bumper bar requiring expensive recalibration costs.
Resulting in the car becoming an insurance right off. And in some cases having the ins. claim rejected.

And now I read that the ability to control speed is real, new cars already have the soft wear necessary.
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I have been searching, with no luck so far, for a photo I took a few years ago of the "front clip" of a Tesla (not sure which model). It is an aluminum alloy casting of a signicant size. If my memory is correct I believe that a series of casting are bolted and glued/adhesive together to make up the front assembly, however there's no way to repair it if does sustain damage in a front impact.

What I find more impressive is the Italian Giga Press that has been developed to cast the components.

I will post the pic provided I can find it. It was in the lobby of one of my customers that does work with Tesla.

Cheers
 
Watched a fella with an all singing all dancing BMW car yesterday, cameras, sensors, rear view mirrors etc. etc. etc.
Unfortunately no 'Park itself' mod as it took him the best part of 10 minutes to park the bloody thing between two existing parked cars.
Tragic!
Its not like it was tight either.
 
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Dellortoman said:
Hi Lothar. I think you must be mistaken. I suspect you were reading Fahrenheit, not Celsius temperatures. I can't believe your car ever got as hot as 120°C, but 120°F is certainly possible.

According to academic studies:
"All day exposure: Temperatures peak and stabilize between 60°C and 75°C+ (140°F to 165°F+)"
"Dashboards and steering wheels: Can reach up to 82°C to 85°C (180°F)

While not particularly relevant to the thread topic or whether aircon is considered a driver aid, it's worth remembering that there have been tragic cases of children and pets dying from heat stroke in cars while the drivers go shopping or to the pub. It's a criminal offence in Australia (and indeed most countries) to leave a child or animal unattended in a hot car, even for a few minutes.
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Hi, I am not Lothar, but I know the difference between degrees C and F, having lived in the United States. 120° F is not even 50° C - a temperature that my Passat reaches everyday when i get in after work during the summer months. It was an analog German thermometer in a German car that was glued to the dashboard. It certainly wasn't calibrated , but I had to pour water over the steering wheel before I could touch it. My Audi 100 always heated up like a motherfucker because of the slanted windshield that allowed the sun to hit the dashboard all day.
 
Never seen this before; it took me by surprise.
I came out of the supermarket with the trolley, and I'm standing there trying to remember where the f... I parked. I spot my vehicle on the far side of the lot, with a Tesla parked next to it.
The Tesla backs out of the space, drives around the parking lot following the correct flow of traffic, and pulls up in front of the store. Very routine; nothing unusual except there is no driver in the vehicle, no one. A guy walks out of the store towards the vehicle. The boot opens; he puts his stuff in the trunk. The Tesla's driver's door opens without him touching it, and he gets in and drives away. Pretty nice feature when it is 46celsius, and I bet the AC was keeping his Tesla cool while he was shopping. I got in my Jeep and could barely touch the steering wheel; it was so hot. Now that is a nice Tesla gadget/feature. The 'summon' feature you can see it on YouTube.
 
The best gadget I ever saw fitted to a vehicle that could also be classed as a 100% safety feature was a 12 inch long metal spike attached to the centre of the steering wheel. The spike end would be 2inch from the drivers chest. This device automatically prevented tailgating, lane swapping, idiotic driving and the driver leaning over to reset the touch screen sat nav, heater, air con, radio etc.
It should be fitted as standard equipment to all new vehicles.
 
Laverda1000.de said:
Hi, I am not Lothar, but ...
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My apologies for getting you mixed up with Lothar. I think I'd just read one of Lothar's posts before yours, and then the "Germany" tag in your location data led me to the wrong assumption. Whatever the reason for my cock-up, thank you for correcting my stupid mistake.

I'm a bugger for getting people mixed up. Sometimes I do it to people's faces and call them by the wrong name. I'm also crap at remembering peoples names when introduced for the first time. The name disappears from my consciousness within seconds of being told. It's embarrassing for me and disrespectful to them so I really try hard to do better, but I inevitably fail. I know it's not normal because other people do so much better at remembering names than I do. I'm aware that difficulty with name recall is something that's common with people on the autism spectrum, as I am.
 
You are far from alone there Cam.
Modern datatech cars, I have to stop getting so angry at the shit they throw at you and you cannot have it activated by choice. In every field now there are people whose job is to find things to inflict on us, it seems they need to been shown to be effective. We meet it all the time at work on commercial boats where every new boss in the directorate finds some other thing to make us install.
The car is so fantastic. Cruise control adjusts the speed to what it thinks is the speed limit. Blasting along the freeway it detects a 60 zone nearby and decides we are on there and suddenly slows down with following traffic mightily impressed. The same in a new 30 zone which police have been monitoring with radar, I use the cruise control to keep from easily creeping up into fine territory, and the car decides half way through that it is 50 zone, which it never was. I am very aware of the location of the cancel button. So bloody safe. Bikes are starting to come with this feature!
My new bicycle rack on the car the other day to take the mtbs out, and the car decides not to power the lights. the car slams on the brakes when reversing, not just applies but locks with a bang. You are supposed to be able to disable this feature but the car now refuses to disable it. Apparently it is a common problem and the car needs to be reconfigured at the dealership. Brilliant tech when it works.
Cars on the back of recovery trucks used to be smashed. These days there is rarely visible damage, but the cars are disabled thanks to this fantastic tech.
 
Dellortoman said:
My apologies for getting you mixed up with Lothar. I think I'd just read one of Lothar's posts before yours, and then the "Germany" tag in your location data led me to the wrong assumption. Whatever the reason for my cock-up, thank you for correcting my stupid mistake.

I'm a bugger for getting people mixed up. Sometimes I do it to people's faces and call them by the wrong name. I'm also crap at remembering peoples names when introduced for the first time. The name disappears from my consciousness within seconds of being told. It's embarrassing for me and disrespectful to them so I really try hard to do better, but I inevitably fail. I know it's not normal because other people do so much better at remembering names than I do. I'm aware that difficulty with name recall is something that's common with people on the autism spectrum, as I am.
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Remember this:

Dumb looking bloke: Hi I’m Pat

Cam: Good to meet you Pat (then ask Pat a question about himself)

Are you a dumb as you look Pat?

Pat: Nah, I just look dumb.

Cam: Thankfully, eh Pat.

You’ve just reinforced Pats name three times in the first minute of meeting, chances are you’ll remember Pats name every time you see his dumbass face.

🤔 Don’t take offence Mr Freely, Pat was the first name to pop into my head.
 
Maybe there aren't enough?
This "driver" obviously needed a gadget to tell them their wheel is not secured properly.
A pair of eyes and a brain obviously weren't available.
Let's hope the other wheel studs are done up properly, or that we never share road space with this particular car.
IMG_9605.JPG
 
Dellortoman said:
My apologies for getting you mixed up with Lothar. I think I'd just read one of Lothar's posts before yours, and then the "Germany" tag in your location data led me to the wrong assumption. Whatever the reason for my cock-up, thank you for correcting my stupid mistake.

I'm a bugger for getting people mixed up. Sometimes I do it to people's faces and call them by the wrong name. I'm also crap at remembering peoples names when introduced for the first time. The name disappears from my consciousness within seconds of being told. It's embarrassing for me and disrespectful to them so I really try hard to do better, but I inevitably fail. I know it's not normal because other people do so much better at remembering names than I do. I'm aware that difficulty with name recall is something that's common with people on the autism spectrum, as I am.
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Well, I am a member of the same club so no offense taken.... I have about 50 employees and have a hard time remembering their names, even ones I have been working with for over 20 years.
 
Dellortoman said:
Ha ha! That comment about Indian drivers is absolutely on the money. It reminds me of an experience I had as a passenger with an Indian driver.

I used to work (in Australia) with an engineer who was from India. He grew up and was educated in India where gained a PhD in engineering, so he clearly wasn't an idiot. He was actually my boss at the time. I was always amused by his insistence on being called Dr Sharma rather than by his first name, and everyone's failure to comply with that request. He was in Australia FFS. Everyone addressed him by his first name. He was lucky not to be given a stupid nickname. He eventually came to understand that Aussie familiarity was a gesture of friendship and acceptance rather than a lack of respect.
But I digress ...

He was a very scary driver.

Apart from having little understanding about how a car works, and poor skills at actually driving the thing, the most dangerous aspect of his driving was his attitude to other road users. When pulling out into traffic from side streets where he had no right of way, he'd simply do it without looking or caring what the traffic on the main road was doing. The first time he did that with me in the passenger seat I thought he had been distracted by our conversation. So I shut up to let him concentrate on driving.

After he did it a couple more times I had to say something. I asked if he was aware that he had to give way at the last intersection. He waved his hand in a dismissive gesture and said "I am Brahmin, they must give way to me".
And of course they did give way to him. They had no bloody choice but to take evasive action, probably swearing loudly at him while they did so.

I never again got into a car that he was driving. It also has me wondering whether Indian taxi drivers apply the same rule. Possibly something to be nervous about when hailing a taxi?

Notwithstanding that discrimination based on the caste system has been illegal in India for many years, the logic of his bizarre statement completely baffles me.

Even if caste dynamics are still observed socially in India, how do other drivers know he is a member of the Brahmin caste? What if the other driver is also Brahmin? And what makes him think the Hindu caste system is even remotely applicable in Australia?
As charley stated above, I presume he trusts his gods to sort out such trivial details.

Note: If you are unfamiliar with Indian society, Brahmin is the highest social and spiritual class in Hinduism.
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My dad’s brother used to drive like that, and he’s not even a Brahmin....
I’m amazed that either me or my siblings survived to adulthood. 🤷‍♂️
 
Driver aids go beyond interference with actually driving the vehicle. They also impinge on the owner's ability to maintain their own vehicle.

Most new vehicles are engineered to require dealer only servicing that rules out owner maintenance or even independent workshop servicing.

I just came across an article about LandRover's Evoque SUV. Brake pad replacement requires manufacturer only software to release the electronic parking brake before you can even think about picking up the spanners. Oil changes require a specific ECU reset that can only be done with the proprietary software. Even battery replacement requires licenced coding that they charge for. This kind of thing is becoming common with many vehicle manufacturers.

The Ducati Multistrada that I recently sold has a service indicator that comes up on the dash that can't be cleared without the factory software that apparently no owners group has yet managed to get their hands on, or been able to figure a work-around. Owners have no alternative than to take it to a Ducati dealer.

Fuck that. I want to be able to work on my own car or bike. Inevitably there are some jobs I don't want to tackle myself. In such cases I want to be able to choose which jobs I farm out to a mechanic, and who that mechanic is (not necessarily a manufacturer certified workshop).

About a year ago, my Mitsubishi Delica needed a new clutch. That requires dropping the gearbox out. I don't have a vehicle hoist and didn't fancy grovelling in the dirt underneath the vehicle, trying to manhandle a big heavy gearbox and 4WD transfer case on my chest. So I took it to an independent clutch and brake shop. I bought all the necessary parts online (clutch assembly, spigot bearing, crankshaft rear seal, etc.) and they did the installation job for me within 24 hrs at a very reasonable cost. No manufacturer software intervention necessary.
 
Dellortoman said:
Driver aids go beyond interference with actually driving the vehicle. They also impinge on the owner's ability to maintain their own vehicle.

Most new vehicles are engineered to require dealer only servicing that rules out owner maintenance or even independent workshop servicing.

I just came across an article about LandRover's Evoque SUV. Brake pad replacement requires manufacturer only software to release the electronic parking brake before you can even think about picking up the spanners. Oil changes require a specific ECU reset that can only be done with the proprietary software. Even battery replacement requires licenced coding that they charge for. This kind of thing is becoming common with many vehicle manufacturers.

The Ducati Multistrada that I recently sold has a service indicator that comes up on the dash that can't be cleared without the factory software that apparently no owners group has yet managed to get their hands on, or been able to figure a work-around. Owners have no alternative than to take it to a Ducati dealer.

Fuck that. I want to be able to work on my own car or bike. Inevitably there are some jobs I don't want to tackle myself. In such cases I want to be able to choose which jobs I farm out to a mechanic, and who that mechanic is (not necessarily a manufacturer certified workshop).
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That all started around the turn of the century, Cam.

The early Mercedes Benz assistance systems could be re-set by the owner, around 2002 though, even a battery swap needed dealer intervention. I remember the introduction of electric braking assistance, lots of safety and disablement measures required in order to keep your fingers in the case the calipers shot themselves shut during a pad swap...

I'll be keeping my old Skoda and Mazda bangers for as long as possible. The 2001 Skoda is mostly analogue, most electronic quibbles can be detected and re-set with a rather cheap diagnosing scanner. Service reminder display is quickly re-set by pushing a couple of buttons in the dash. ABS light lit up last week, front LH ABS sensor faulty, that's easy enough. ;) 2007 Mazda is already a bit more complex, but happily not to the point that a dealer is needed to diagnose each and every hiccup. I've even found defects that dealers couldn't find with their multi-thousand Euro Diagnosis Centres. I was told my intermittant non-start issue was a broken cable... somewhere! I found the main relay in the fuse box was faulty. Apparently they've forgotten how old-fashioned diagnosis works. At least the dealer could confirm the anti-theft system was OK, which was all I actually needed to know.:LOL:

I also want to maintain and service my own cars, but with our spiralling workshop rates I really can't afford to have it done by others. Workshops here turn up their noses if you supply consumables for them to fit. Big discussions about warranties and liabilities, DIY is the only option left for me.

My cars are also a lot more intuitive to drive/handle than modern ones. The Opel Astra rental that I had the "pleasure" to drive while my rear-ended MX5 was repaired sent me scrolling through 3 levels of info before I found the fucking windschield wiper! To think we have laws prohibiting the use of smart phones while driving is the total irony.

piet
 
sfcpiet said:
The Opel Astra rental that I had the "pleasure" to drive while my rear-ended MX5 was repaired sent me scrolling through 3 levels of info before I found the fucking windschield wiper! To think we have laws prohibiting the use of smart phones while driving is the total irony.

piet
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ehem - the Opel Astra has a normal lever on the right side to activate and controle the wipers ...

If that is modern, your last car must have been an Unimog from around your birth year ... 🤪 :D

Page 74 (well - actually it is page 76, but it is numbered 74): https://public-servicebox.opel.com/...0/manual_user/ID-OASLOLSE2210-de_7_online.pdf

sure it was an Astra? Trust you when you say so, but I am surprised, as especially Opel has a lot of switchs still, unless it is not a Corsa, which is a Peugeot 205 in reality...
 
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