Valve stem collet install Tips and Tricks?

Paul LeClair

Paul LeClair

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Location
Calgary, Alberta, Canada
Hi all

as my eyes continue to age and my close up vision continues to require my arms to get longer and longer, I am beginning to struggle to install valve collets.

anyone got any tricks up their sleeve? The only "trick" I use is to dip each collet in grease so they stick to the valve stem as I release the spring compressor....which when I can't really see all that clearly where the collet's actualy are, isn't working all that well.

I am presently working on the Suzuki GS 750 16 valve head, which isn't helping, as the damn valves and collets are so tiny and there are so many of them. I fired up a 500 watt halogen work lamp to bring a little light to the process, but I am getting frustrated with several attempts on each bloody valve until I finally get it right, as much by accident as design :o

any suggestions gratefully received.

Paul LeClair

ps when the cam chain broke back on this engine back in 1989 it turns out all the pistons hammered all the valves hard enough to bend the valves enough they wouldn't fully seat, one advantage to working on old Jap bikes is I obtained another complete head for less than $50 in reasonably good condition...... :D
 
Paul, do pharmacies in Alberta sell Foster Grant Lightspecs? Illuminated reading glasses, 2 very powerful LED lights. I use them and they're great, I can actually see what I'm doing in the garage! And I'm sending a couple of pairs to Drikko in Australia, he needs them as badly as we do.
Looks like (on their web site) they're sold in Canada and the UK. Take a look at them all you blind old blokes, they work great!
Your mother always said if you kept playing with that thing you'd go blind, looks like she was right :D

Ken
 
put the grease in the collet groove
try using some small curved hemostats to hold the collet and slip it in place

and get some reading glasses, they're dirt cheap, come in a variety of diopters
diane has a dozen pair or so scattered throughout the kitchen, nightstand, desk and car ....
 
I have a couple of pairs of spectacles in my workshop. They're just cheapo reading glasses from the local pharmacy and have different magnification strengths (+1 and +2) depending on how fiddly the work is. I have been known to wear both pairs together when trying to read the faint little numbers on small carby jets or needles. As a last resort I have a jeweller's eyeglass.

The handy thing about wearing glasses in the workshop is that they offer some eye protection. If one of those collets pings off, you don't want it bouncing off your eyeball.

I think the only way to avoid the close-up focussing problems that come with old age is to die young. Not much of an alternative  :(

Cheers,
Cam
 
I have been busy googling for collet installation tools, turns out there are sveral cool tools all designed for eaily installing collets on valve stems. The neatest one doesn't even require a valve spring compressor and makes a ton of sense. See it on eBay UK here:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Sykes-Pickavant-Valve-Collet-Installer-Set-NEW-/310050864995?pt=UK_Hand_Tools_Equipment&hash=item483078bf63

I already use the curved hemostat dental thingys and some grease, but the thought of just being able to load the collets onto a tool and push down without even having to deal with a valve spring compressor holds a powerful appeal for me.......

now I have to try and find a local tool supplier who carries something similar to what I found on eBay..

Paul LeClair
 
Paul,

Compressing the valve spring so that the cap is below the collet location can take more than a push with such a tool, going by the energy released when the spring compressor fork slips off the cap!  That tool would seem to need quite a bit of pressure, methinks.

Has anyone used these tools and is it as easy as described?

Andy
 
I was going to suggest just what you've found Paul, seen one used on a 16v car head and it worked as advertised. Given you need to lean on the thing a fair bit, you obviously need some sort of sturdy arrangement to hold both the head and the face of the valve.
I think the one I saw was a Snap-on in case that's easier to find in your neck of the woods.
Cheers
Steve B
 
I will confess now that I often remove valve collets with a hammer and a deep socket of appropriate size, one quick whack and the collets pop off.

For collet installation, this tool set looks like a great idea, if I can't push down hard enough, well, I have a couple of different sizes of brass hammers....

so, don't know about a Laverda engine, but for something like the 16 valve Suzuki engine I am presently doing, even with its double valve springs on each tiny valve, I can quite literally open a fully assembled valve assembly off its seat by pushing down hard with my thumb, I have no doubt whatsoever that tool would work fine against the valve springs with just hand pressure to install the collets on the valve stems of this 16 valve engine...

I already have slowly and painfully installed all 8 of the exhaust valves of the head I am working on (took me over an hour so far :( ) , and as I want to get the bike running within the next couple of days I will likely do all 8 intake valves without waiting for the collet tool, but if I can't find a collet tool locally I think I will order that set from the UK just to try out. If it works as well as I think it might, it will be worth its weight in gold to the aged and vision impaired engine builders like me......... :D

Paul LeClair

ps, Steve just saw your post, thanks. I'll check with the local Snap On tool rep, although Snap On pricing often feels like the tool is actually made of gold.... :o :D
 
Paul, enough of the hammer and socket.. a man of your age after all.. :D
From a mob out here called T & E Tools (part #4124) you find a Valve Spring Compression Tool, which is essentially a big G-clamp with wind down action and open socket end that allows you to locate on the top and bottom of the valve, remove or refit the collets and simply unwind to release. Take all the time you like fiddling about getting the collet right in the groove.. you can even go get a cuppa or a beer half way thru if the urge takes your fancy..
Can be found on the "Bursons Tools" shops in Oz..
Sure makes head work just so much easier.. ;)
and like others, I too have a special set of specs that my Opto made for me set to the focal point for these up close jobs.. priceless..!
HTH
Ian
 
Hi Ian

I attach a photo of my rather messy workbench, with the Suzuki head and my 20 + year old valve spring compressor tool that I have used on numerous different engines. For this 16 valve Suzuki engine I had to make a much smaller open sided socket out of some plastic pipe I had laying around.

I use a hammer and socket to pop valve spring collets free simply because I am lazy and that is the quickest way I know to do it. I got all sixteen valves free in maybe a couple of minutes absolute max, painless and quick, no f***ing around with the big valve compressor tool.

Installing the collets is a different matter. No problem compressing the valves spring with the big tool. just a huge pain in the ass trying to get the two little colllet halves to line up with the groove in the valve stem, then getting them to stay there as I release the pressure on the valve spring. 7 times out of ten at least one of the collets doesn't stay where it should, even with grease in the valve stem groove, and dental tools to line the collets up while the valve spring is compressed. It really doesn't help that I can no longer see the damn groove in the valve stem, or the collet halves for that matter as I am trying to place them. Working by feel absolutely sucks......

that is why the collet installing tool I found looks like the greatest possible addition to my tool box if it works as advertised, should save hours of frustration..... ;)

Paul LeClair
 

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Paul....I'm older than you and pride myself on still being able to install collets....My standard time for a 16V head is one hour flat...

What does help is a spring compressor which is a screw thread style - mine's made from an old G clamp. Much more control both compressing springs and releasing - frequently one has to adjust collets as the compression comes off the spring.
I use a small screwdriver with a dab of grease holding the collet on - and another dab on the inside surface of the collet.
Easy peasy....if I can find my reading glasses.
 
Heya Paul, "whatever floats your boat.." but I'm with these lads as to control, time to fit the collets, adjust as required as you release.. but sounds to me also like... ;)
Ya gotta get you some specs man.. :P
Met a guy a few years ago who was a mad keen Alfa fan, shed full of lovely little cars, most goers but maintenance required to keep 'em on the road, and due to his eyesight had let it all go. Selling the lot...
All for the sake of some specs... :(
8)
 
There is another thing which can save you from a lot of fiddling around.
Fix the cyl. head in an angle where the valves are in a vertical position.
To achieve this I?ve made myself holders for Laverda twins and triples
that I fix in the vice.
Despite my also bad eyesight installation of the collets is easy, because
they no longer fall off.
I compress the springs with a valve compressor like in Paul?s photo
and insert the collets with a pair of (circon-encrusted?) tweezers. No
problems.
When I grind in valves in the seats, I attach the head upside down to the
holder and have the valve in a vertical position, too.

Ernesto
 

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LaverdaIan said:
Heya Paul, "whatever floats your boat.." but I'm with these lads as to control, time to fit the collets, adjust as required as you release.. but sounds to me also like... ;)
Ya gotta get you some specs man.. :P
Met a guy a few years ago who was a mad keen Alfa fan, shed full of lovely little cars, most goers but maintenance required to keep 'em on the road, and due to his eyesight had let it all go. Selling the lot...
All for the sake of some specs... :(
8)
Click to expand...

Hi Guys

lucky for those who can just stick on some glasses for up close work.... I had an artery blow in my head a couple of years ago, I was lucky to have survived the aneursym, a lot don't. I still feel lucky that after a lengthy recovery about the only lasting reminder I still have of that particular experience is having been blinded in one eye, I can live with that. The lack of depth perception is something I am still struggling with, however, both for motorcycle riding and for installing valve collets, among other activities :( I have ordered the valve collet installation tool, worth giving it a try.

and for Greg, it took me damn near three hours to stick all 32 collets in all 16 tiny valves using a large magnifying glass, a 500 watt halogen, and a pinpoint flashlight as well as a bunch of dental tools, and that does not include the time to lap in all the valves, replace the valve stem seals,  etc, that was just my frustrating collet install...... :o but I still figure I do a better job than the local stealership monkies in the big box Suzuki shop local to me who won't work on a bike older than ten years anyways :D

Paul LeClair
 
Fair enough Paul...My old man lost an eye on Crete in WW2 and i know from assisting him just how much it doesn't help...
The old bugger was still a very fast and agressive rider though.

The GSX 750's are comparatively easy though - try a 20V Yamaha with the valve stems buried down a small hole the bucket runs in...
I'm doing an FZR600 racebike head tomorrow - miniature engineering.
 
GregT said:
Fair enough Paul...My old man lost an eye on Crete in WW2 and i know from assisting him just how much it doesn't help...
The old bugger was still a very fast and agressive rider though.

The GSX 750's are comparatively easy though - try a 20V Yamaha with the valve stems buried down a small hole the bucket runs in...
I'm doing an FZR600 racebike head tomorrow - miniature engineering.
Click to expand...

Hi Greg

well, the vision thing slowed me down a bit, for regular street riding I try and keep the ZX 14 under 250 kph most of the time in highway traffic, with only the occasional run up to 300 kph + .... :D  using the Bonneville Pro DeLimiter http://www.muzzys.com/ZX14/ZX14_Bonneville_Pro/index.html , the Power Commander 5, the AutoTuner, and the carefully mounted Valentine1  http://www.valentine1.com/

Paul LeClair
 
Hi Paul, I use the compressor as in the attached photograph. Works a treat as the cutouts allow easy access to the collets and valve stem. No idea who the manufacturer is; it's an exquisite design and one would think they would stamp a name on it. As I recall I ordered it through a motorcycle dealer and I believe they sourced it through Parts Canada.
Dennis
 

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Dennis.. that there is THE tool I've described. T & E Tools #4124. Great bit of kit, and takes all the hassle out of collett work. Only thing I did with mine was make up a flat boot for the other end to seat neatly on the valve head..
And Paul, sorry mate, didn't know about your eye. Well understand your frustration now..
Ian
 
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