Wasted spark

Tippie

Hero member
Location
Dr?bak, Norway
Can any of our electro-genii clarify this for me.
Does having a wasted spark consume more power than a single spark from a coil.
I.e does a coil consume power recharging itself after a discharge to the sparkplug, or is the power consumption the same as long as the coil is connected to the power source regardless of firing the sparkplug.
This is relevant considering constant loss battery ignition for racing, bigger battery etc.
 
Not enough to bother about.  I run wasted spark Ignitech based system on the SLC and can easily do 2 races on a little 4-cell A123 battery which weighs 300g.  Probably last all day but I dare not push it. That's using one dual-output coil.
Cheers
SteveB
 
Lee,

I agree with Steve B.
Not enought to worry about.

For racing I would use A123 or Headway Cells.
4 x 3.2 v per cell. Very Light and very quick to recharge.
LifePo 4 is the way to go in my opinion.
80% good for more than 1500 recharges.

Cheers
Bruce
 
Hey All

As most will know, modern bikes use individual coils per cylinder, intergrated into the spark plug caps.

Have any of you go faster, racing types looked into these ?

                              Cheers
                                        Matt
 
there is an article about fitting them in Practical sportsbikes this month

PRACTICAL-SPORTSBIKES_MAY-12.jpg
 
Two issues to chew on:

1. Will a wasted spark prematurely age a coil? Are they like sperm, and there are only so many "bullets" that can be shot before you are shooting blanks?

2. Where does that wasted spark go? I understand it is "wasted", but where does it go? Is there a spot on my bike where all of these wasted sparks are deposited, and do I have to open this spot up and empty these wasted sparks now and again?
 
Spub said:
2. Where does that wasted spark go? I understand it is "wasted", but where does it go? Is there a spot on my bike where all of these wasted sparks are deposited, and do I have to open this spot up and empty these wasted sparks now and again?

ah, is this a wind up Spub ?
wasted spark refers to the coil discharging to the cylinder each time the piston reaches TDC so you have a spark event on the compression stroke as well as the exhaust stroke
this is caused by the ignition being mounted on the crank so it fires every 360 degrees of rotation, irrespective if the piston is on its compression stroke or exhaust stroke
to avoid this you need to have a cam position sensor installed so the engine knows where the cams are which then allows the ignition to be sequential timed, meaning it fires on compression stroke only

 
Hello Lads, Ladies.

Many is the word written on single fire and wasted spark ( redundant spark ),  for the most part wasted spark is a working solution to an engineering or production feasible issue.  Some systems run triple wasted like the Rita et al for the Triumph triples.  Did work out where sparks occurred on that configuration,  in the induction cycle was occurring.  For some motor configurations the wasted spark causes abnormal vibrations.

  Not so much on the 180 ( and 120/240 motors ),  lot of bother to make a single fire ignition for the Laverda triple,  though i did one design without cam position sensing.  Red correctly said,  it is the cam position that needs to qualify the actual crank position on a compression stroke ignition point.

  Coil on plug technique was more to do with reducing Radio Interference, and more so,  unwanted interference finding its way into the engine management computer control systems,  via the sensor wires located in the engine bay.  Plus it looks elegant from an engineering/visual point of view i suppose. Others may disagree.

  What wasted spark does bring about is the added demand on an ignition system to produce twice as many sparks for a given rpm.  At 8Krpm a wasted spark ignition is producing rates at 16Krpm.  This means coil magnetic saturation time becomes critical,  which brings about the concept of extended dwell systems to overcome this time critical issue.  This then leads to significant increase in power demands on the ignition and charging systems.  Included is the prospect of over heating the ignition coils with near constant connection of ignition coil to the battery or system volts.  This is an issue for constant or total loss systems like on race bikes.  Racing lads have found solutions for this and their approach is very valid,  given races are short duration.  For usual prolonged road riding it is an issue of course.

  As for "wearing out" a coil,  doubt it will be a concern for the riders 57 and over....  coil will out live us... grin.

  **** BTW some spark plug cross reference books,  recommend ( correctly so for factory bosch  ignition ),  to reduce the plug electrode gap on the outer cylinders for the 180 engine.  With modern ignition systems this in no longer required,  standard gaps as found on new plugs out of the packaging box,  is good to go on IIS.   

  HTH John.
 
We'll be putting dual distributors with twin plugs in the sidecar engine.  >:D Get's rid of the wasted spark which can cause issues in high tune 4 strokes. Also allows individual tuning of advances on each bank of plugs, potentially many benefits, including longer spark duration and lower temperatures.

 
XBCoupeJota said:
We'll be putting dual distributors with twin plugs in the sidecar engine.  >:D Get's rid of the wasted spark which can cause issues in high tune 4 strokes. Also allows individual tuning of advances on each bank of plugs, potentially many benefits, including longer spark duration and lower temperatures.

Seems a bit old-fashioned - it would be easier to use three twin-outlet coils, fired individually. Just use a sensor on a camshaft so you know which stroke each cylinder is on. I'm sure the Ignitech ignition would readily take that in it's stride.

Cheers,

bazzee
 
  I did a ? speed ignition kit (Boyer - Trident) in 1984 on my 120 motor. it was driven by a toothed belt - worked fine - but a bit vulnerable. sorry the photo isn't clearer - it's the only one I've got of it. - Think we did one similar on the 500's too - regards - Phil
 

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