What are the symptoms of starter motor brushes getting worn?

Some really interesting comments.

1)I've had soft solder come apart in my repairs done past with soft solder. Almost exclusive to starter motors I've fixed for diesel engines. It needs to be better than soft solder. What actual content is the "hard solder" recommended? I've got some fkn big soldering irons...

2) Silver solder is an extreme, but I was looking at using 200amp copper alligator clips to heatsink it.

3) Interesting about the SJCE(?) brush plate. I will look at the oct site. I need some zane head gaskets from oct as well, and the little 16*12*3 gear change shaft seal..and....and...

4) I'm somewhat confused about the later triples using a direct drive SJCE. I've a spare SJCE downstairs that I've been looking at. 13 tooth, not 14. The old Bosch had a worm drive gear that ran onto the idler gear, and then to the "sprag" behind the alternator. Sort of a safety set up 2 stage disconnection process?? Has there been issues with relying on the "sprag" only?

So if Zane will fit a Breganze, with a change of gear,and as part of my research over the last few years I think I found a 4 pole Ducati starter, wrong direction, that would fit a Zane with a direction change, does this mean I can use my rebuilt Breganze Bosch on the 916 and the 999???

And no, I'm not pulling the starters from the 916 and the 999 to find out...

Yep, I'm confused...

Regards, Greg



 
your problem (with the diesels) may well be that you got the braid too hot, because soft solder will creep along the braid due to capillary action, this causes the "flexibility" of the braid to be reduced, I have seen this on an non worker Bosch starter (fitted to a triple) and the brushes were barely one third worn and had stopped being moved by the springs, no alternative but to fit another set of brushes, and yes it was me who did the bad soldering job rfirst time around, using an iron with its own small gas flame designed for field use.
CLEM

there, you now have it, I have admitted a deficiency and whoo hoo bloody hoo ho ha, it feels great!
 
Keep going, you're on a roll now, admit more to us.
We won't tell anyone!
 
ghwallice said:
[...]
4) I'm somewhat confused about the later triples using a direct drive SJCE. I've a spare SJCE downstairs that I've been looking at. 13 tooth, not 14. The old Bosch had a worm drive gear that ran onto the idler gear, and then to the "sprag" behind the alternator. Sort of a safety set up 2 stage disconnection process?? Has there been issues with relying on the "sprag" only?
[...]


Regards, Greg
Click to expand...

Greg, the worm drive on the triple Bosch starter is a feature inherited from other applications of this starter motor, it doesn't disengage from the idler gear when fully retracted on a Laverda triple engine. So even the Bosch starters with the worm gear are relying on the sprag clutch only, nothing to worry about replacing Bosch starters by SJCE starters w/o worm gear.

Regards,
Stefan
 
Soft solder is Sn based, with varying Pb + others content, heat required from 250?C up to around 450?C.  Hard solder is SnZn (bronze) based, with varying contents of Ag, amoungst others.  Heat required 650+?C.  2 completely different processes for completely different applications!  Lots of differing qualities/grades of soft and hard solder available, need to read what it says on the tin... :D

The Ducati starter could be a replacement for the liquid-cooled Zane starters, if you rewind them to reverse rotation.  Or you simply isolate them from the rest of the bikes electrical system and reverse their polarity. :D

The SJCE starter for the air-cooled Zane is the same as used from the RGS through Atlas, only different gears required for the different applications.

piet

 
Piet, your response is gold, and I thank you for taking the time. When I find a Ducati starter and reverse it, in an easy way, I'll let you know. Regards, Greg
 
I'm leaving this thread after this, too much other stuff happening, issues resolved, but wanted to share some info.

Brushes, replacement for both the Bosch 160 series and the SJCE are OEX Mitsubishi BRX71834. Cost me $7.70 incl for a set of 4, and the +ve brushes have insulation on the leads.

Reversing rotation on most 4 pole starters is just about swapping the +ve and -ve brushes on the brush plate. It's basically about drilling out the rivets and moving the insulation materials one pole one way or the other.

The world is still full of lovely people, just sometimes hard to find. Had a chat with an old bloke yesterday.

He:
1 taught me how to change rotation
2 taught me how to refurbish stator windings

3 Sold me, and get this...

OEM brush plate for a 160 series Bosch
a 600 watt SJCE with the same foot as  the 400 Watt (THIS NEEDS TO FOUND AS TO WHAT IT FITS OEM)
2 of Sea Doo (Yamaha) 400w starters,
2 of Sea Doo 600w starters,
1 of Hitachi 600w starter

All need attention, all need reversing, and all need the clutch removed and the shaft machined to take the gear for the SJCE, but the important thing is that the footprint is great for adaption to Breganze and the early Zanes.

He wanted $50, I gave him $150.

Thankyou all for your help, hope this gives you all something to think about!

Regards, Greg

 
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