Which motor oil is the best for laverda 750 sf1??

Cosi said:
Yeah I wouldn't either, I think that people are generally misguided by uneducated advisors as to what the numbers on the labels mean

The first numbers relate to ambient temperature measured in degrees Celsius, the letter W standards for specific gravity otherwise referred to as weight, and the number after the W refers to the measurement of the weight

So 20w50 means that at 20dC the oil will maintain its 50 weight, any lower than that and the oil will start to get thicker than 50 weight, fine in warm climates

So if you can grasp the concept, there is no difference to weight of a 5/50 or a 20/50
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Most oils on the shelves today are "Multigrades", which simply means that the oil falls into 2 viscosity grades (i.e. 10w-40 etc)

Multigrades were first developed some 50 years ago to avoid the old routine of using a thinner oil in winter and a thicker oil in summer.

In a 10w-40 for example the 10w bit (W = winter, not weight or watt or anything else for that matter) simply means that the oil must have a certain maximum viscosity/flow at low temperature. The lower the "W" number the better the oil's cold temperature/cold start performance.

The 40 in a 10w-40 simply means that the oil must fall within certain viscosity limits at 100?C. This is a fixed limit and all oils that end in 40 must achieve these limits. Once again the lower the number, the thinner the oil: a 30 oil is thinner than a 40 oil at 100?C etc. Your handbook will specify whether a 30, 40 or 50 etc is required.

ripped from the www.

I never new you were an writer Cosi, what other works of fiction have you written :o

                                                                             Dave
 
It's queer that you don't see the difference between a $20/liter of Harley Re-Brand 20w50 Valvoline that sells for $8/liter Vs a $5/Liter of Industrial DINO CI-4 Plus that does the same job.
 
Cosi said:
Yeah I wouldn't either, I think that people are generally misguided by uneducated advisors as to what the numbers on the labels mean

The first numbers relate to ambient temperature measured in degrees Celsius, the letter W standards for specific gravity otherwise referred to as weight, and the number after the W refers to the measurement of the weight

So 20w50 means that at 20dC the oil will maintain its 50 weight, any lower than that and the oil will start to get thicker than 50 weight, fine in warm climates

So if you can grasp the concept, there is no difference to weight of a 5/50 or a 20/50
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Yep, the man's right.  Just make sure it is a good oil, as cheap 20/50 is going to turn to water when mashed by a combination of roller bearings and heat.  Keith recommended Harley type oil a couple of years ago and it was good advice then, as it is now.  It is an easy, reliable option that requires no thought and not much effort to find (there are thousands of those things around, so shed loads of oil available).

Suitable for all 70's/80's Laverda twins & triples (hell, may even work in "Breganzes"  ::). )

Simple.....

Pete
 
Laverda SF said:
It's queer that you don't see the difference between a $20/liter of Harley Re-Brand 20w50 Valvoline that sells for $8/liter Vs a $5/Liter of Industrial DINO CI-4 Plus that does the same job.
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Please don't use the word queer on here, it may be considered offensive. We have a quite number of 120 owners.....
 
Cosi said:
Yeah I wouldn't either, I think that people are generally misguided by uneducated advisors as to what the numbers on the labels mean

The first numbers relate to ambient temperature measured in degrees Celsius, the letter W standards for specific gravity otherwise referred to as weight, and the number after the W refers to the measurement of the weight

So 20w50 means that at 20dC the oil will maintain its 50 weight, any lower than that and the oil will start to get thicker than 50 weight, fine in warm climates

So if you can grasp the concept, there is no difference to weight of a 5/50 or a 20/50
Click to expand...

I kinda thought it was something like that.

Now due to the (relative) looseness of our (mainly C3) bearings, particularly the crank rollers we are best sticking with the thick, old school 50 weight oil.

For those of us who are dumb enough to a). Live somewhere cold and/or b) regularly ride when it is proper cold we could benefit from using a 5/50 or maybe 10/50, or even when seriously cold a 0/50?

Not being a mechanic it is good to have these things cleared up.

I do like the pretty green colour of my current 20/50...

James
 
I with you Poffer. It's just that I've already been labeled "queer" and "criticized" when I'm attempting to teach ludiluka a NewBee to this forum about Oil and Oil is something I know about. So Shit has hit the fan again and it's not from me.

Better run ludiluka
 
Laverda SF said:
COSI you a Clueless Wonder - Lets see if can spin your moped over when it's 30 below with 20w50.
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Ron,

I fear that this is the kind of thing that maybe irritates so many. Cosi clearly stated that it was suitable for hot climates. Go back and re-read his post.

Despite all the crap and stirring, there are still people here trying to help. Putting a 40 weigh oil in an engine designed for a 50 weight is plain stupid. As Dave correctly said, the performance (i.e. weight) of the oil is only good up to 100c. That's boiling point and our engines get FAR hotter than that.

Whatever suits you, carry on as you are, I don't think anyone will mind.

Pete
 
Poffer said:
Ron,

I fear that this is the kind of thing that maybe irritates so many. Cosi clearly stated that it was suitable for hot climates. Go back and re-read his post.

Despite all the crap and stirring, there are still people here trying to help. Putting a 40 weigh oil in an engine designed for a 50 weight is plain stupid. As Dave correctly said, the performance (i.e. weight) of the oil is only good up to 100c. That's boiling point and our engines get FAR hotter than that.

Whatever suits you, carry on as you are, I don't think anyone will mind.

Pete
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I've read that the 'W' stands for winter, not weight.

" The numbers 0, 5, 10, 15 and 25 are suffixed with the letter W, designating they are "winter" (not "weight") or cold-start viscosity, at lower temperature."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motor_oil

"With multi-viscosity oils, a "W" after the number stands for "Winter" grade oil. The numeric value of the first number (example 5W-20) is a measure of the pour point of the oil expressed in degrees Celsius."

http://www.aa1car.com/library/oil_viscosity.htm
 
I believe your right Chappo.

Poffer: If you read the 750 manual Laverda recommends straight Shell HDEO SAE 40 weight back in the early 70's.

Do you want me to get into SAE viscosity, the use of paraffin's relative to viscosity and Flash Temperatures for the last 40 years - LOL
 
The problem with most if not all modern oils is a high detergent content which keeps dirt and metal particles in suspension in order to be collected in the oil filter and theres the problem

                                                                                                Dave
 
Well put it this way SAE 15w40 Oil will be at 40w Viscosity when the 750SF is at operating temperature - Unlike Quaker State GTX 20w50 that turns to Pony Piss.
 
detergent content
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Yep too much detergent specifically in HDEO Diesel/Gasoline Oils tend to be High in order to clean soot created by burning diesel Fuel and can wash out the ZDDP Metal to Metal Load Bearing protective layer - But Oil Co's do not recommend that you change their formula by adding more ZDDP as their Formula has already compensated for it - So you have to trust the Oil manufacturer.

Our issue is with Wet Clutches and maintain Anti-Wear Additives. In order for the Motive Industry to reduce the Carbon Footprint they introduced the Catylitic Converter which plugs up with the amount of ZN and Phospherous (Anti-Ware Additive) put through them so Oil Co's introduced a Synthetic Anti-Friction Compound that makes our Wet Clutches Rattle and Slip.

Modern Engines with 4 Valves/Cylinder, running a much Lighter Valve Train, lighter Spring Pressures and less Metal to Metal Pressure on Cams do not require as much anti-friction additives as our old Breganzes that run 2 Big Heavy Valves and High Pressure Springs against our cams.

Unless they run a Wet Clutch, the DESMO DUCK (Ducati) clearly doesn't have this issue with modern Oils as it don't use Valve Springs so there is very little friction on the cam.

For anyone that is truly interested in this topic suggest you read the Spec Sheet on PetroCan's HDEO DURON 15w40 found here:

http://lubricants.petro-canada.ca/pdf/DURON_15W-40_IM-7912E.pdf

It specifically shows the Anti-Wear-Additives with a Sulphated Ash Weight of 1.37% (That is approx a 1,370ppm ZDDP content) and is Wet Clutch Jasco MA compatible. At $5/liter it's a bargain for us and I'm sure PetroCan is not the only World Industrial HDEO Oil Co still producing DINO CI-4 or CI-4 Plus 15w40. If you honestly believe 15w40 is too light, some of these Industrial Oil Suppliers also make 20w50 with a similar Formula.

I've been running HDEO 15w40 for over 40 years in a Breganze SF, still running the original Cam,  Top End, Main bearings Gears including the clutch ...etc, all original, and never had an Oil Issue. Yes I tried lots of other After Market Expensive Brands but in my opinion - Not worth it.
 
Laverda SF said:
Nothing wrong with 20w50. It's just that I find it rather thick for everyday cursing and for cold climate start ups; therefore, not suitable for my other vehicles when you can buy Industrial HDEO SAE 15w40 API CI-4 Plus with 1370 ZDDP and JASO M2 for Wet Clutches in bulk that works in most our vehicles for a cheaper price.

It's not as if I'm spinning my SF at 8000rpm when I spend most my time cursing in 5th at 3400rpm and I'm not saying my SF won't hit 8000rpm and fall apart using Industrial HDEO SAE 15w40 API CI-4 Plus. It's just a Great over DINO (Mineral) Industrial Oil that about every  Country runs on.

The only thing is that it's going CI-J "EPA Green" with considerably less ZDDP suitable for Catalytic's (Harder on our Big 2 Valve Valve Trains) has added friction modifiers that may not be suitable for our wet Clutches.
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Picking a post a random...

Do you spend your spare time loitering around in train stations, c/w jota pad writing down numbers?

13867
 
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