Laverda SF
Hero member
What do you want "Permission to enter Main Track" I can give it to you. I was Train Dispatcher for 20 years ;o)
Which motor oil is the best for laverda 750 sf1??
- Thread starter ludiluka
- Start date
OneThinBloke
Hero member
- Location
- Oxfordshire, UK
Laverda SF said:
Not from where you are, and if that is some type of code then I don't think I really want it.
Thank you all the same.
chrisk
Hero member
- Location
- Brisbane, Australia
OneThinBloke said:
True story: When I lived in Sydney, I used to leave the pub after a few beers after work.
There would be this guy standing outside the TAB, writing down the results of the days racing, in a well worn book the size of a bible. After months, I finally asked if he was a betting man. He replied "I've never bet on a horse in my life, but when I work out the formula (Cause there must be one) I'm going to put everything I have on them". Turns out he'd been doing this for years.
Some weeks after I spoke to him, there was a comotion outside the pub, old mate was run over by a car and was deader than dead. His book was in the gutter and I near pocketed it, who knows, he may have just worked out 'the formula' I didn't and we'll never know, or, he was just a drongo wasting his time looking for something that wasn't there.
Back to the topic: Oils ain't oils.
OneThinBloke
Hero member
- Location
- Oxfordshire, UK
chrisk said:
Another true story:
My best mate during late teens was going through a bad stage and decided to end it. He made himself comfortable and sat on the railway track (main line) for 3 or 4 hours before giving up.
If only he listened to the news he would have know that the trains were on strike.
We are still in contact, he is in a happier place.
Laverda SF
Hero member
I apologize COSI - Let the past be gone.
James your just to God Damn witty to forgive - LOL
James your just to God Damn witty to forgive - LOL
chrisk
Hero member
- Location
- Brisbane, Australia
OneThinBloke said:
Your story has lost credability: Trains don't go on strike, the drivers do ???
Cosi
Hero member
- Location
- Kingscliff
chrisk said:
Your obviously not up with technology matey, I draw your attention to Thomas the tank engine, no drivers and the trains can talk
OneThinBloke
Hero member
- Location
- Oxfordshire, UK
chrisk said:
Surely one of Thomas' mate's must have gone on strike??
chrisk
Hero member
- Location
- Brisbane, Australia
Laverda SF said:
I think I found the culprit! 
Laverda SF
Hero member
Yeh! I'm guilty but didn't cause any wrecks though.
chrisk
Hero member
- Location
- Brisbane, Australia
Cosi said:
Missed this one Cosi ........... and the steam engines never used detergent in the water to suspend the solids, they needed to drop the suspended solids, so it could be flushed out the blow-off valves.
OneThinBloke
Hero member
- Location
- Oxfordshire, UK
chrisk said:
Fat Controller?
OneThinBloke
Hero member
- Location
- Oxfordshire, UK
chrisk said:
STOP
you will make him horny, you won't like him when he is...
Dellortoman
Hero member
- Location
- Tasmania, Australia
Cosi said:
Gawd Cosi, someone's been telling you porkys. A lot of people are confused about oil specs, but that's gotta be one of the wrongest things I've seen written on the subject
Dave's post immediately after yours has the correct interpretation of the SAE oil designations.
5W-50 and 20W-50 behave the same when hot, but there's a big difference between them when cold. Pull the sump plug on a cold engine and the 5W-50 will piss out like water, whereas the 20W-50 will gloop out like treacle. Well, maybe not that much of a difference in reality, but that's the general idea.
Cam
Cosi
Hero member
- Location
- Kingscliff
ok please explain, I thought that's what I said,
are you pulling the sump plug at 5dc on the 5/50?
does the 5/50 get thicker as it heats up if its like piss?
My understanding is that the lower the first number is relates to the oil weight at that temperature
id really like to know then what the fuck it means
are you pulling the sump plug at 5dc on the 5/50?
does the 5/50 get thicker as it heats up if its like piss?
My understanding is that the lower the first number is relates to the oil weight at that temperature
id really like to know then what the fuck it means
D
Davo
Guest
From Wikipedia:-
Properties[edit]
Most motor oils are made from a heavier, thicker petroleum hydrocarbon base stock derived from crude oil, with additives to improve certain properties. The bulk of a typical motor oil consists of hydrocarbons with between 18 and 34 carbon atoms per molecule.[7] One of the most important properties of motor oil in maintaining a lubricating film between moving parts is its viscosity. The viscosity of a liquid can be thought of as its "thickness" or a measure of its resistance to flow. The viscosity must be high enough to maintain a lubricating film, but low enough that the oil can flow around the engine parts under all conditions. The viscosity index is a measure of how much the oil's viscosity changes as temperature changes. A higher viscosity index indicates the viscosity changes less with temperature than a lower viscosity index.
Motor oil must be able to flow adequately at the lowest temperature it is expected to experience in order to minimize metal to metal contact between moving parts upon starting up the engine. The pour point defined first this property of motor oil, as defined by ASTM D97 as "... an index of the lowest temperature of its utility ..." for a given application,[8] but the "cold cranking simulator" (CCS, see ASTM D5293-08) and "Mini-Rotary Viscometer" (MRV, see ASTM D3829-02(2007), ASTM D4684-08) are today the properties required in motor oil specs and define the SAE classifications.
Oil is largely composed of hydrocarbons which can burn if ignited. Still another important property of motor oil is its flash point, the lowest temperature at which the oil gives off vapors which can ignite. It is dangerous for the oil in a motor to ignite and burn, so a high flash point is desirable. At a petroleum refinery, fractional distillation separates a motor oil fraction from other crude oil fractions, removing the more volatile components, and therefore increasing the oil's flash point (reducing its tendency to burn).
Another manipulated property of motor oil is its Total Base Number (TBN), which is a measurement of the reserve alkalinity of an oil, meaning its ability to neutralize acids. The resulting quantity is determined as mg KOH/ (gram of lubricant). Analogously, Total Acid Number (TAN) is the measure of a lubricant's acidity. Other tests include zinc, phosphorus, or sulfur content, and testing for excessive foaming.
The NOACK volatility (ASTM D-5800) Test determines the physical evaporation loss of lubricants in high temperature service. A maximum of 15% evaporation loss is allowable to meet API SL and ILSAC GF-3 specifications. Some automotive OEM oil specifications require lower than 10%.
Grades[edit]
Range of motor oils on display in Kuwait in now-obsolete cardboard cans with steel lids.
Question book-new.svg
This section does not cite any references or sources. Please help improve this section by adding citations to reliable sources. Unsourced material may be challenged and removed. (March 2013)
The Society of Automotive Engineers (SAE) has established a numerical code system for grading motor oils according to their viscosity characteristics. SAE viscosity gradings include the following, from low to high viscosity: 0, 5, 10, 15, 20, 25, 30, 40, 50 or 60. The numbers 0, 5, 10, 15 and 25 are suffixed with the letter W, designating they are "winter" (not "weight") or cold-start viscosity, at lower temperature. The number 20 comes with or without a W, depending on whether it is being used to denote a cold or hot viscosity grade. The document SAE J300 defines the viscometrics related to these grades.
Kinematic viscosity is graded by measuring the time it takes for a standard amount of oil to flow through a standard orifice, at standard temperatures. The longer it takes, the higher the viscosity and thus higher SAE code.
The SAE has a separate viscosity rating system for gear, axle, and manual transmission oils, SAE J306, which should not be confused with engine oil viscosity. The higher numbers of a gear oil (e.g., 75W-140) do not mean that it has higher viscosity than an engine oil.
Single-grade[edit]
A single-grade engine oil, as defined by SAE J300, cannot use a polymeric Viscosity Index Improver (also referred to as Viscosity Modifier) additive. SAE J300 has established eleven viscosity grades, of which six are considered Winter-grades and given a W designation. The 11 viscosity grades are 0W, 5W, 10W, 15W, 20W, 25W, 20, 30, 40, 50, and 60. These numbers are often referred to as the "weight" of a motor oil, and single-grade motor oils are often called "straight-weight" oils.
For single winter grade oils, the dynamic viscosity is measured at different cold temperatures, specified in J300 depending on the viscosity grade, in units of mPa?s, or the equivalent older non-SI units, centipoise (abbreviated cP), using two different test methods. They are the Cold Cranking Simulator (ASTMD5293) and the Mini-Rotary Viscometer (ASTM D4684). Based on the coldest temperature the oil passes at, that oil is graded as SAE viscosity grade 0W, 5W, 10W, 15W, 20W, or 25W. The lower the viscosity grade, the lower the temperature the oil can pass. For example, if an oil passes at the specifications for 10W and 5W, but fails for 0W, then that oil must be labeled as an SAE 5W. That oil cannot be labeled as either 0W or 10W.
For single non-winter grade oils, the kinematic viscosity is measured at a temperature of 100 ?C (212 ?F) in units of mm2/s (millimeter squared per second) or the equivalent older non-SI units, centistokes (abbreviated cSt). Based on the range of viscosity the oil falls in at that temperature, the oil is graded as SAE viscosity grade 20, 30, 40, 50, or 60. In addition, for SAE grades 20, 30, and 1000, a minimum viscosity measured at 150 ?C (302 ?F) and at a high-shear rate is also required. The higher the viscosity, the higher the SAE viscosity grade is.
Multi-grade[edit]
The temperature range the oil is exposed to in most vehicles can be wide, ranging from cold temperatures in the winter before the vehicle is started up, to hot operating temperatures when the vehicle is fully warmed up in hot summer weather. A specific oil will have high viscosity when cold and a lower viscosity at the engine's operating temperature. The difference in viscosities for most single-grade oil is too large between the extremes of temperature. To bring the difference in viscosities closer together, special polymer additives called viscosity index improvers, or VIIs are added to the oil. These additives are used to make the oil a multi-grade motor oil, though it is possible to have a multi-grade oil without the use of VIIs. The idea is to cause the multi-grade oil to have the viscosity of the base grade when cold and the viscosity of the second grade when hot. This enables one type of oil to be used all year. In fact, when multi-grades were initially developed, they were frequently described as all-season oil. The viscosity of a multi-grade oil still varies logarithmically with temperature, but the slope representing the change is lessened. This slope representing the change with temperature depends on the nature and amount of the additives to the base oil.
The SAE designation for multi-grade oils includes two viscosity grades; for example, 10W-30 designates a common multi-grade oil. The two numbers used are individually defined by SAE J300 for single-grade oils. Therefore, an oil labeled as 10W-30 must pass the SAE J300 viscosity grade requirement for both 10W and 30, and all limitations placed on the viscosity grades (for example, a 10W-30 oil must fail the J300 requirements at 5W). Also, if an oil does not contain any VIIs, and can pass as a multi-grade, that oil can be labelled with either of the two SAE viscosity grades. For example, a very simple multi-grade oil that can be easily made with modern base oils without any VII is a 20W-20. This oil can be labeled as 20W-20, 20W, or 20. Note, if any VIIs are used however, then that oil cannot be labeled as a single grade.
Breakdown of VIIs under shear is a concern in motorcycle applications, where the transmission may share lubricating oil with the motor. For this reason, synthetic oil or motorcycle-specific oil is sometimes recommended.[9][10] The necessity of higher-priced motorcycle-specific oil has also been challenged by at least one consumer organization.
Hope that clears it up
Properties[edit]
Most motor oils are made from a heavier, thicker petroleum hydrocarbon base stock derived from crude oil, with additives to improve certain properties. The bulk of a typical motor oil consists of hydrocarbons with between 18 and 34 carbon atoms per molecule.[7] One of the most important properties of motor oil in maintaining a lubricating film between moving parts is its viscosity. The viscosity of a liquid can be thought of as its "thickness" or a measure of its resistance to flow. The viscosity must be high enough to maintain a lubricating film, but low enough that the oil can flow around the engine parts under all conditions. The viscosity index is a measure of how much the oil's viscosity changes as temperature changes. A higher viscosity index indicates the viscosity changes less with temperature than a lower viscosity index.
Motor oil must be able to flow adequately at the lowest temperature it is expected to experience in order to minimize metal to metal contact between moving parts upon starting up the engine. The pour point defined first this property of motor oil, as defined by ASTM D97 as "... an index of the lowest temperature of its utility ..." for a given application,[8] but the "cold cranking simulator" (CCS, see ASTM D5293-08) and "Mini-Rotary Viscometer" (MRV, see ASTM D3829-02(2007), ASTM D4684-08) are today the properties required in motor oil specs and define the SAE classifications.
Oil is largely composed of hydrocarbons which can burn if ignited. Still another important property of motor oil is its flash point, the lowest temperature at which the oil gives off vapors which can ignite. It is dangerous for the oil in a motor to ignite and burn, so a high flash point is desirable. At a petroleum refinery, fractional distillation separates a motor oil fraction from other crude oil fractions, removing the more volatile components, and therefore increasing the oil's flash point (reducing its tendency to burn).
Another manipulated property of motor oil is its Total Base Number (TBN), which is a measurement of the reserve alkalinity of an oil, meaning its ability to neutralize acids. The resulting quantity is determined as mg KOH/ (gram of lubricant). Analogously, Total Acid Number (TAN) is the measure of a lubricant's acidity. Other tests include zinc, phosphorus, or sulfur content, and testing for excessive foaming.
The NOACK volatility (ASTM D-5800) Test determines the physical evaporation loss of lubricants in high temperature service. A maximum of 15% evaporation loss is allowable to meet API SL and ILSAC GF-3 specifications. Some automotive OEM oil specifications require lower than 10%.
Grades[edit]
Range of motor oils on display in Kuwait in now-obsolete cardboard cans with steel lids.
Question book-new.svg
This section does not cite any references or sources. Please help improve this section by adding citations to reliable sources. Unsourced material may be challenged and removed. (March 2013)
The Society of Automotive Engineers (SAE) has established a numerical code system for grading motor oils according to their viscosity characteristics. SAE viscosity gradings include the following, from low to high viscosity: 0, 5, 10, 15, 20, 25, 30, 40, 50 or 60. The numbers 0, 5, 10, 15 and 25 are suffixed with the letter W, designating they are "winter" (not "weight") or cold-start viscosity, at lower temperature. The number 20 comes with or without a W, depending on whether it is being used to denote a cold or hot viscosity grade. The document SAE J300 defines the viscometrics related to these grades.
Kinematic viscosity is graded by measuring the time it takes for a standard amount of oil to flow through a standard orifice, at standard temperatures. The longer it takes, the higher the viscosity and thus higher SAE code.
The SAE has a separate viscosity rating system for gear, axle, and manual transmission oils, SAE J306, which should not be confused with engine oil viscosity. The higher numbers of a gear oil (e.g., 75W-140) do not mean that it has higher viscosity than an engine oil.
Single-grade[edit]
A single-grade engine oil, as defined by SAE J300, cannot use a polymeric Viscosity Index Improver (also referred to as Viscosity Modifier) additive. SAE J300 has established eleven viscosity grades, of which six are considered Winter-grades and given a W designation. The 11 viscosity grades are 0W, 5W, 10W, 15W, 20W, 25W, 20, 30, 40, 50, and 60. These numbers are often referred to as the "weight" of a motor oil, and single-grade motor oils are often called "straight-weight" oils.
For single winter grade oils, the dynamic viscosity is measured at different cold temperatures, specified in J300 depending on the viscosity grade, in units of mPa?s, or the equivalent older non-SI units, centipoise (abbreviated cP), using two different test methods. They are the Cold Cranking Simulator (ASTMD5293) and the Mini-Rotary Viscometer (ASTM D4684). Based on the coldest temperature the oil passes at, that oil is graded as SAE viscosity grade 0W, 5W, 10W, 15W, 20W, or 25W. The lower the viscosity grade, the lower the temperature the oil can pass. For example, if an oil passes at the specifications for 10W and 5W, but fails for 0W, then that oil must be labeled as an SAE 5W. That oil cannot be labeled as either 0W or 10W.
For single non-winter grade oils, the kinematic viscosity is measured at a temperature of 100 ?C (212 ?F) in units of mm2/s (millimeter squared per second) or the equivalent older non-SI units, centistokes (abbreviated cSt). Based on the range of viscosity the oil falls in at that temperature, the oil is graded as SAE viscosity grade 20, 30, 40, 50, or 60. In addition, for SAE grades 20, 30, and 1000, a minimum viscosity measured at 150 ?C (302 ?F) and at a high-shear rate is also required. The higher the viscosity, the higher the SAE viscosity grade is.
Multi-grade[edit]
The temperature range the oil is exposed to in most vehicles can be wide, ranging from cold temperatures in the winter before the vehicle is started up, to hot operating temperatures when the vehicle is fully warmed up in hot summer weather. A specific oil will have high viscosity when cold and a lower viscosity at the engine's operating temperature. The difference in viscosities for most single-grade oil is too large between the extremes of temperature. To bring the difference in viscosities closer together, special polymer additives called viscosity index improvers, or VIIs are added to the oil. These additives are used to make the oil a multi-grade motor oil, though it is possible to have a multi-grade oil without the use of VIIs. The idea is to cause the multi-grade oil to have the viscosity of the base grade when cold and the viscosity of the second grade when hot. This enables one type of oil to be used all year. In fact, when multi-grades were initially developed, they were frequently described as all-season oil. The viscosity of a multi-grade oil still varies logarithmically with temperature, but the slope representing the change is lessened. This slope representing the change with temperature depends on the nature and amount of the additives to the base oil.
The SAE designation for multi-grade oils includes two viscosity grades; for example, 10W-30 designates a common multi-grade oil. The two numbers used are individually defined by SAE J300 for single-grade oils. Therefore, an oil labeled as 10W-30 must pass the SAE J300 viscosity grade requirement for both 10W and 30, and all limitations placed on the viscosity grades (for example, a 10W-30 oil must fail the J300 requirements at 5W). Also, if an oil does not contain any VIIs, and can pass as a multi-grade, that oil can be labelled with either of the two SAE viscosity grades. For example, a very simple multi-grade oil that can be easily made with modern base oils without any VII is a 20W-20. This oil can be labeled as 20W-20, 20W, or 20. Note, if any VIIs are used however, then that oil cannot be labeled as a single grade.
Breakdown of VIIs under shear is a concern in motorcycle applications, where the transmission may share lubricating oil with the motor. For this reason, synthetic oil or motorcycle-specific oil is sometimes recommended.[9][10] The necessity of higher-priced motorcycle-specific oil has also been challenged by at least one consumer organization.
Hope that clears it up
T
Terry Dymond
Guest
This is the way I undestand it: take a standard multigrade 20/50 weight oil. When cold the oil has a viscosity of a straight monograde 20 weight oil, when at operating temperature the oil will have the same viscosity that a straight 50 weight monograde would have, by no means 50 weight but a darn sight more than a 20 weight would have.
All to do with polymers uncurling as the oil heats up, which is why the oil in your bike should be changed more often than a car's, all those gears chopping the polymers to bits.
May be wrong, I'm not a ........chemist.
All to do with polymers uncurling as the oil heats up, which is why the oil in your bike should be changed more often than a car's, all those gears chopping the polymers to bits.
May be wrong, I'm not a ........chemist.
T
Terry Dymond
Guest
Shit! Davo posted his thesis while I was composing my dribble. What he said
chrisk
Hero member
- Location
- Brisbane, Australia
You can talk all your clap trap technical jargon all you like, but ........................................................ there are very few smells that rise the senses more than sitting behind a green frame Ducati running castor oil. Thank you Mr Cutler.