wanted - moto giro bike

[Paul LeClair]

going to charge ahead and split the cases. Have removed the cylinder, the clutch, and the outer housing of the generator. Have also cleaned up the chain drive area enough to find the remaining "hidden" case half bolts

Have removed the crank end bolt and now looking curiously at the generator itself. Looks like it has a backing plate, which has the two threaded rods that the outer generator face plate was attached to and did not rotate. The geneator windings themselves I am guessing are likely an interference fit on the cranckase end, likely with a woodruff key or similar. Has anyone here any experience with removing a generator like this? I am thinking of using a three or four arm puller and just haul it off? Suggestions or advice?

Also have the fork legs upside down in a bucket, they were full of greasy sludge and a fair bit of water. If they are like the Garelli forks from my previous project I am guessing the chrome bits unscrew from the lower fork legs. I am also guessing they probaly have not been apart in many decades, hopefully all the greasy sludge has at least minimized internal rust, we'll see. Going to try to split the fork legs later today

 

[Paul Marx]

going to charge ahead and split the cases. Have removed the cylinder, the clutch, and the outer housing of the generator. Have also cleaned up the chain drive area enough to find the remaining "hidden" case half bolts

Have removed the crank end bolt and now looking curiously at the generator itself. Looks like it has a backing plate, which has the two threaded rods that the outer generator face plate was attached to and did not rotate. The geneator windings themselves I am guessing are likely an interference fit on the cranckase end, likely with a woodruff key or similar. Has anyone here any experience with removing a generator like this? I am thinking of using a three or four arm puller and just haul it off? Suggestions or advice?

Also have the fork legs upside down in a bucket, they were full of greasy sludge and a fair bit of water. If they are like the Garelli forks from my previous project I am guessing the chrome bits unscrew from the lower fork legs. I am also guessing they probaly have not been apart in many decades, hopefully all the greasy sludge has at least minimized internal rust, we'll see. Going to try to split the fork legs later today

Obviously, don't put a puller on the windings. Isn't the end of the dynamo, since it is a dynamo, threaded so as to use a screw in puller?

I think that for the forks, the fork seal holder is what holds it together if that's what you mean by "the chrome bits".
Are the forks supposed to be filled with oil or grease?

Paul

 

[sfcpiet]

Paul,

Look closely at the bore of the rotor, it has an internal thread inside the commutator. You'll probably need to make up a puller bolt to suit and press it off the crank taper.

piet

 

[Paul Marx]

Paul,

Look closely at the bore of the rotor, it has an internal thread inside the commutator. You'll probably need to make up a puller bolt to suit and press it off the crank taper.

piet

Yes.
Son's 175, being an ex track bike, didn't have a dynamo. He picked one up on Subito today.
I also found a 175 Rosso Extra parts list on ebay which will go in his New Year's stocking.

Paul

 

[Paul LeClair]

going out to the garage with a bright light and a magnifying glass to have a look for internal threads...... There was a bolt into the crank end that I have removed.

just spent a couple of hours on eBay ordering an engine gasket set, a fork rebuild kit, various oil and dust seals, transmission bits, tool box cover decals ("150 Sport"), 4 mm steering head balls, etc., etc.

need a really long speedo drive cable to reach the rear wheel speedo drive. Also need to make up cables for the clutch, front brake, and throttle, hoping to catch up with Wolfgang Haerter around New Years and maybe he can help me out with cable bits.

I have the entire wiring harness (such little that it is) strung out on my work bench, pretty poor shape, I found a seller in Italy that makes and sells a complete replacement wiring harness for a very reasonable price and have ordered one, will see what the quality of the replacement is. As it is still Christmas holidays have not yet had a reply from the folks who make and sell the complete charging and ignition system upgrade to 12 volts and digital https://www.vape.eu/gilera so not sure how much of the original wiring will be used anyway.

now on the hunt for replacement rear shocks if anyone has any suggestions, more interested in decent rear suspension performance than stock appearance. The stock shocks are very short, would consider going a bit longer within reason as well.

still have not come across any useful Gilera forums

 

[Paul LeClair]

don't have a bolt big enough to make a puller for the dynamo. The bolt from the Laverda alternator puller is about one size too small...... ( Laverda content!) Will have to go bolt shopping for a larger bolt

used a heat gun and penetrating oil to loosen up the fork assembly where it threads together, then used a rubber strap wrench, eventually both forks came apart. Interesting design, the fork legs are tapered, much larger at the top than the bottom inside the sliders.

the rear wheel speedo drive was seized solid, filled it full of penetrating oil, then forced it apart, then dumped it and a bunch of other stuff in the ultrasonic. Will likely need a new bearing.

passed a bit of time prying the rotten tire off one of the rims, the rims look to be in useable shape but even after clean up will show their age and lengthy useage, nothing wrong with that

 

[sfcpiet]

Paul,

Load the engine and take it to your favourite machine shop. They can determine the thread size and pitch and are likely to knock up a puller bolt while-U-wait. Not rocket surgery...

My guess is you won't find a suitable bolt on the whole american continent. These puller threads are often quite strange and rarely coincide with any standards other than thread form and pitch. The threads are made to suit the part in question, the part wasn't made to suit any particular bolt. That's why original factory special tools are so invaluable.

piet

 

[Paul Marx]

Hagon will make shocks with shrouds like the originals, to your specs.

Paul

 

[Paul LeClair]

Thanks Paul Marx and Piet. The dynamo is off, threaded in an 18 mm bolt and used a slide hammer, popped right off. Not even a keyway or woodruff key. Have emailed Hagon with specifications to have a set of rear shocks made. Bike weighs roughly 220 pounds. With gear on the rider weighs....more.... than the bike

next puzzle - the fork seals are carried in a detachable chromed carrier. I took the forks apart and cleaned up the fork seal carriers. Can't see how to get the fork seals out or in. Clearly not coming out or going in through the threaded end. Looking inside the fork seal carrier, after a very thorough cleaning I see three dimples, and wondering if the three dimples are used with some special tool to unscrew from the inside. If so I guess I will make some sort of tool. If not, I will take a driver and hammer from the threaded end and see if the step behind the fork seal drives out?

Hoping someone has the answer before I break something.... I have to get it apart not only to replace the seals but to strip the fork seal carriers bare for rechroming. Thanks in advance.

pretty much ready to split the engine cases, for better or worse, but going to leave the engine for a bit while I prepare the frame and all the bits for paint, that is likely going to take me several days. Have to pick a black, a red, and a clear. Not going for dullish stockish original, will likely stick to relatively stock mostly black paint scheme with bright red on half the fuel tank, but I want the sucker to pop...... definitley going to be "over-restored". My Range Rover Sport Supercharged is a peculiar black with all kinds of sparkly bits in it, really striking when it is clean, going to investigate a black like that.... and a really bright red.

 

[breganzane]

Not going for dullish stockish original, will likely stick to relatively stock mostly black paint scheme with bright red on half the fuel tank, but I want the sucker to pop...... definitley going to be "over-restored". My Range Rover Sport Supercharged is a peculiar black with all kinds of sparkly bits in it, really striking when it is clean, going to investigate a black like that.... and a really bright red.

You ol' hot rodder you! Great fun following the progress...

 

[The Sock]

Have to pick a black, a red, and a clear. Not going for dullish stockish original, will likely stick to relatively stock mostly black paint scheme with bright red on half the fuel tank, but I want the sucker to pop...... definitley going to be "over-restored". My Range Rover Sport Supercharged is a peculiar black with all kinds of sparkly bits in it, really striking when it is clean, going to investigate a black like that.... and a really bright red.

Take a look at Ford Panther Black, Paul.
I used it for the roof on my Mini and it really does pop, especially in the sunshine!
Almost impossible to do justice to it in a photograph, but the below might give you a taste.

 

[Paul Marx]

Are you sure that the seal holder doesn't unscrew from the opposite side to the dimples?

Paul.

 

[sfcpiet]

Armature thread looked a lot bigger than 18mm!

No need for a key way and key as long as there are no timing-crucial components mounted to the armature. Lots of 50s-60s era bikes had the ignition contact breaker cam fitted to the end of the armature, this would necessitate positive location of some sort.

Over-engineered fork seal holders deserve over-restoring...

piet

 

[Paul Marx]

You'll find timing components with a cone mounting, no key. It won't slip if the components are in good condition.

It might be an idea Paul LC to lap your dynamo rotor on to it's cone with a bit of fine grinding paste.

Paul

 

[sfcpiet]

You'll find timing components with a cone mounting, no key. It won't slip if the components are in good condition.

It might be an idea Paul LC to lap your dynamo rotor on to it's cone with a bit of fine grinding paste.

Paul

Maybe on pre-war stuff with external chain-driven magnetos, no other method of adjustment other than searching for the "right" spot. Common to have this sort of armature keyed to the taper if contact breaker cam is fitted to the end, see BMW, Horex, TWN, etc, etc

piet
.

 

[Vince]

I broke a key on a Husky once, big-time kickbacks resulted. That hurt a lot

 

[Paul LeClair]

Are you sure that the seal holder doesn't unscrew from the opposite side to the dimples?

Paul.

Hi Paul

not sure at all, going to get a brighter light and a magnifying glass, walked away before I broke something.....

for the dynamo and points plate etc nothing is being reused, I just had to get it off. I have ordered the Vape digital ignition/12 volt charging sytem conversion, the Order/Payment confirmation says delivery in 6 weeks, we'll see. https://www.vape.eu/gilera The Vape timing specifications for the setting for the Gilera 150 gives 9 degrees advance at start up, ramping up to 38 degrees by 3,000 rpm. I don't know what stock specifications are, but the mechanical advance unit I took off is seized solid, I have been soaking it in EvapoRust for two days trying to free it up just on principal, just as well I decided not to try to start the engine.

The Sock, love the Ford Panther Black paint photos, great Mini project! Exactly the type of black I have in mind.

 

[Paul LeClair]

a couple of heads broken off engine case bolts made it tough to seperate the cases. Used tapered wooden shims to slowly lift the case straight up and eventually off. Went to remove the crank but cannot find any timing marks whatsoever even when turning the crank to Top Dead Center a couple of times. I can see the gear driving the cam but even with a very bright light cannot see any timing marks at all. The case half that does not have anything in it except bearings and a bushing, both the crank bearing and the transmission shaft bearing are "crunchy". Looks like I am going to have to source all new bearings and figure out crank/cam timing. I really need to find a service manual if such a thing exists.

I have selected a local custom bike painter and delivered him pretty much everything except the engine and wheels, everything is completely dismantled to the bare frame and smallest bits. Going for shiny and sparkly, blackest black with flake, brightest red with flake, then red flake in the shiniest clear possible, water transfer decals to be buried in the clear, then cut and finish polished. The painter is quoting six to eight weeks, we'll see. First time I have not done my own painting in 40+ years, is very tough to trust someone else.

I got the fork seals out, gathering up all the small bits for chroming including the very cool drop handlebars, once I find a chromer and get those parts dropped off, it will be back to a service manual search, engine parts search, and dealing with fabricating all new cables while waiting for delivery of all the parts already on order from Italy, England, Czechia, and the U.S.. I also have to deal with removal of the three broken fasteners, two in the engine cases, one in the head. "While I am at it" also have to figure out and organize my order list for new fasteners.

The local Moto Giro rules prohibit turbo charging, which would have been easy. The Rules however do permit supercharging, not sure how serious I am just yet but does anyone know of any suppliers of small displacement superchargers? Looks fairly straightforward to extend one end or the other of the crank to provide drive for a supercharger

 

[Dellortoman]

... very cool drop handlebars ...

We used to call them "Ace bars" back in the day. I put them on my Yamaha 250 when I was 17 and thought I was pretty cool. I didn't have any workshop or tools to make rear-sets, but I could put my feet on the passenger footrests if I wanted to get down flat on the tank. I actually got the speedo to read 100mph doing that on a long flat straight (Yamaha speedo was mph in 1967). I dunno what the real speed was - probably around 90, but as far as I was concerned, I'd cracked "the ton" on a motorcycle for the first time in my life

 

[bazzee]

Good luck with the supercharging Paul.
I have a vague recollection of someone running a supercharged Honda C90 step-thru at Bonneville in the late 1970s. The supercharger used was a belt-driven refrigerator compressor. I have no further memory of the result, but I don't believe that I was hallucinating. May not be an approach suitable for a moto giro bike, or for your sensibilities. A google search proved fruitless as well although it did reveal a supercharged Honda monkey bike...

cheers,

bazzee