chrisk
Hero member
- Location
- Brisbane, Australia
Don’t apologise, hearing of real life accounts makes you realise how seriously wrong this Fucken shit is.
To sell or not to sell?
- Thread starter Andy J
- Start date
piranha-bro2
Hero member
- Location
- Melbourne
As Red has pointed out, we're talking about people happily living their lives under a system they generally approve of (democracy) and with at least some sense of personal freedom and just government - being invaded by another country insistent on imposing its imperialist bullshit way of life upon them. No different to Hitler deciding he'd like to 'govern' the free world. Imagine it happening in your country tomorrow - Australia suddenly faced with a massive armed threat, surrender or die. It's 2022 FFS - and forget covid; where has the imminent threat of climate change disappeared to in all this?? Too trivial?
One solution is for the Russian public to decide they want to become a true democracy - which unfortunately means someone has to assassinate a few of their corrupt ruling class first - and joining the EU!! Be nice if the Russian military laid down their weapons and said 'no mate, this is just bullshit'. The end of the US invasion of Vietnam came about because there was a groundswell of opposition from the US's own people and the people of their allies - Australia being one.
One solution is for the Russian public to decide they want to become a true democracy - which unfortunately means someone has to assassinate a few of their corrupt ruling class first - and joining the EU!! Be nice if the Russian military laid down their weapons and said 'no mate, this is just bullshit'. The end of the US invasion of Vietnam came about because there was a groundswell of opposition from the US's own people and the people of their allies - Australia being one.
Legs
Hero member
- Location
- Adelaide Hills
The reply given to the Russians, when asked to surrender, by those blokes on the island will go down in history alongside General McAuliffe's reply when asked to surrender at Bastogne during the battle of the bulge.
Over the last 100 tears who have successfully invaded anyone and had no ongoing issues. This stupid shit never works in the long run and anyone, not delusional would know this. The guy is a throwback to a past almost thought to be forgotten. He controls his own people with fear and imprisonment. And now talking up THE NUCLEAR option. WE need to completely isolate him and hopefully, sometime soon his own people will come to their scenes and drop the hammer on him. Hopefully, before this goes completely nuts. Bet the Ukrainians now wish they still controlled the Nucs they graciously gave up years ago with the promise the west would protect them, as crazy as all that sounds now.
helicopterjim
Hero member
- Location
- near Lone Butte, BC, Canada
Agreed ...... but McAuliffe still had substantial forces left. Those poor bastards on Snake Island were 13 against a Russian missile cruiser and several other warships and a large contingent of Russian marines.
"Russian Warship Go Fuck Yourself" will not be forgotten.
Steve G.
Hero member
Interesting conversation. Tragic if inevitable outcome. It’s not surprising though. This is a goal of all post USSR leaders, to gather Russians back under the bosom of the motherland. Yeltsin had the same wish, taking parts of Georgia, and Moldova.
Expect Ukraine to fall in short order, followed within the window of opportunity presented by the west, that of weak leaders, that Georgia, Moldova, indeed Kazakhstan, all presently with long entrenched Russian residents, to fall, within 3 years. My thoughts of course, but the history of this region certainly gives opinions like this to ponder. Very sad. But this region has been this ‘way’ since the year 1000.
Those former Soviet bloc countries who are part of NATO need not worry ‘too much’, as a 30 country military presence instantly responding, Putin definitively understands.
Regarding economic realities, and Russian resources, those who understand the situation as it is, see that media BS from every side is in full swing. On my country, current leader of Canada, offer the most difficult task along most regions to stop selling Russian Vodka, but is silent as a lamb about continuing to purchase Russian oil, 610,000 barrels a day to feed the eastern provinces of Canada, and unknown amount to northeast USA, even as the most recent collaboration by current U.S. and Cdn governments to shut down the Keystone pipeline, at 967,000 barrels a day, which would make both Canada and the USA NOT dependent on Russian, and Saudi Arabian oil stock. But hey, media doesn’t need to bring up these rather uncomfortable facts.
Expect Ukraine to fall in short order, followed within the window of opportunity presented by the west, that of weak leaders, that Georgia, Moldova, indeed Kazakhstan, all presently with long entrenched Russian residents, to fall, within 3 years. My thoughts of course, but the history of this region certainly gives opinions like this to ponder. Very sad. But this region has been this ‘way’ since the year 1000.
Those former Soviet bloc countries who are part of NATO need not worry ‘too much’, as a 30 country military presence instantly responding, Putin definitively understands.
Regarding economic realities, and Russian resources, those who understand the situation as it is, see that media BS from every side is in full swing. On my country, current leader of Canada, offer the most difficult task along most regions to stop selling Russian Vodka, but is silent as a lamb about continuing to purchase Russian oil, 610,000 barrels a day to feed the eastern provinces of Canada, and unknown amount to northeast USA, even as the most recent collaboration by current U.S. and Cdn governments to shut down the Keystone pipeline, at 967,000 barrels a day, which would make both Canada and the USA NOT dependent on Russian, and Saudi Arabian oil stock. But hey, media doesn’t need to bring up these rather uncomfortable facts.
helicopterjim
Hero member
- Location
- near Lone Butte, BC, Canada
We can always hope there is a glitch in a cruise missile's navigation system and it turns to the west and hits something in Poland. Then we will have waaaaaaay more excitement.
Lots of people in Canada are of Ukrainian descent and they played a very important part of developing the farmlands of the Canadian prairies. Many tragic stories of why they were displaced and came to Canada. I hope we don't have another round of immigration ........ but they are welcome as far as I am concerned.
Jim
Lots of people in Canada are of Ukrainian descent and they played a very important part of developing the farmlands of the Canadian prairies. Many tragic stories of why they were displaced and came to Canada. I hope we don't have another round of immigration ........ but they are welcome as far as I am concerned.
Jim
helicopterjim
Hero member
- Location
- near Lone Butte, BC, Canada
Steve G.
Hero member
Yup. Don’t have gold stocks right now, but good point.
KLEINDORF
Full member
- Location
- British Columbia,Canada
Steve & Jim know and revile our Canadian Prime Goofball. Having a new Defence Minister I
believe is also poor timing....but thats history. Canada's contribution I believe should be the
rapid deployment of two ,yes a pair of pop-up Tim Horton doughnut stands for all our NATO
allies in Poland and environs. Canada offered this taste of home schlock back in the day to our
boys in Afghanistan....but only a solo stand. Poor Canada,great people,better soldiers, last place
military command and control even worse national government capability.
believe is also poor timing....but thats history. Canada's contribution I believe should be the
rapid deployment of two ,yes a pair of pop-up Tim Horton doughnut stands for all our NATO
allies in Poland and environs. Canada offered this taste of home schlock back in the day to our
boys in Afghanistan....but only a solo stand. Poor Canada,great people,better soldiers, last place
military command and control even worse national government capability.
helicopterjim
Hero member
- Location
- near Lone Butte, BC, Canada
I'd rather see some of the bad boys that were working behind the lines in Afghanistan go over ...... especially the one they called "natural born killer". Them and the snipers ....... unleash a bit of hell on the Spetnatz pricks.
Steve G.
Hero member
Yup.
Not defending Putin in any way but,,,,,,only the west is allowed to invade countries to install despots. Libya. Iraq. Afghanistan. Central America. Etc.
C'mon, the Russians have installed plenty of despots.
They've been defending the butcher Hassad for years.
Paul
The Sock
Hero member
- Location
- London, England
I think the US has a big numerical lead in those stakes, Paul.
Imagine if Putin arranged an assassination, like Lumumba's, as was carried out under Eisenhower's watch.
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Been a few of those under Mad Vlad, maybe not national leaders, "only" oppositional politicians, journalists and activists. He uses his KGB/FSB methods, brutally efficient and leaves little evidence. See Pollonium and Novichock poisonings, everybody knows that these are "standard" KGB/FSB issue and are hard to find elsewhere, but still cannot be traced back 100%. Those that would raise too much outroar if asassinated simply disappear in the Gulags... Only reason Kazachstan, Turkmenistan, Uzbekistan, Tajikistan, etc still have their own flags is because they're already busy licking Putins' boots. He's been blatantly lying to the
piet
Perhaps one of the reasons that Donald wanted to hold on to his presidancy so much is that he wanted to further destabilise NATO by withdrawing the US as part of a "deal" with Putin (they were best buddies, for a while. Reckon Vlad recognised a sucker when he saw one... he could have given Donald lots of reasons to do so). Had this happened, the Ukraine might possibly have been invaded a lot earlier, Putins destabilising efforts have been going on since long before the Crimea "annection". Fortunately NATO remained intact as Joe won the vote, so Mad Vlad needed a plan B, which is what we're seeing now.
Just a thought...
piet
Just a thought...
piet
helicopterjim
Hero member
- Location
- near Lone Butte, BC, Canada
Yeah ......... I'm afraid I stay away from trying to figure out what the idiots in charge are doing. I'm more interested in seeing someone go at the guys who are firing unguided missiles in the general direction of civilians and shit like that ......
Here's my take on it.
Jim
Laverdalothar
Hero member
- Location
- Germany
I can say the same about the russians I met. One of my colleagues comes from Russia (now living in California), she has a lot of relatives in Dombas region and she is really, really sad and feels ashamed about what her former nation is doing there. For her, it really feels like a civil war.
You have a point here, Steve. However, most of the countries you are naming have corrupt systems and the west wanted to remove a dictator and put in democracy. On Putin and the Ukraine (or any other country he invaded), it is the total opposit...
If you look back 20 years, Putin has named his plans several times. He tried to do it silently like with Belarus by supporting the local guy (which he also did in the Ukrain - until Selenskyj came to power, who then faught against Putins loyal elite in the Ukraine and made himself an enemy to Putin with that).
Putin is a spy from the cold war times. He saw the USSR brake down and hated what Gorbatschow did. He wants to turn back time 30 years at least (see his arguments with "since 1917, ..."). The whole Government exists of KGB members (they call the secret service differently now (GRU?), but it's actually the same organization). One of my business-partners was officer in the ex GDR military. He was in a special forces troup, training with the Speznas troups of Russia. He knows a lot of the now high class guys still (like the Chef of Police of Moskow). These relationships are life-time friendships... You are either in or you are dead (just like Piet said above - see the assissination of several people, even on german grounds!).
Putin has managed to put the "right" people (the ones that support him) into the chairs he needs the most support of from, has made them rich but always made sure they understand that HE controlles if they stay there or not... He tried the same with Ukraine and was on a good way, just like with Belarus. And then Zelensky came and destroyed his plans... I am not 100% sure why he actually wants the Ukraine. I understand that he wants to have full access to the Krim and that he needs the east-Ukraine for that. I also understand that he needs to go to Kiew to hunt for Selenskyj and that he will - most probably "accidently" - kill him. But as long as the west does not put hard sanctions in that really hurt the elite and the people in Russia or even fight back, he will not stop his expansion plans, that's for sure. He might make it smarter than Hitler did, but he won't stop...
I truely hope that he is smart enough not to attack any NATO nation, as this will defenitely start WW3.
Steve G.
Hero member
Oh, oh, there it is,,,,lurking Trump Derangement, waiting, wishing. The entertainment value is epic.
Steve G.
Hero member
Correct points.
Yes, any movement towards a NATO country, NATO will mobilize.
None of this will make me want to sell my Laverda.