lost first gear
- Thread starter acelav
- Start date
I certainly will Paul 
think I'll take the bike over to a bloke near me he knows his stuff on the older bikes even just to get him to have a check and make sure I haven't been a numpty and missed the obvious, second pair of eyes 
and all that thanks again Stuart
think I'll take the bike over to a bloke near me he knows his stuff on the older bikes even just to get him to have a check and make sure I haven't been a numpty and missed the obvious, second pair of eyes and all that thanks again Stuart
The Sock
Hero member
- Location
- London, England
One last thing:
Can you get it in neutral, easily?
Can you get it in neutral, easily?
Regarding the broken spring, in my case slightly lifting the lever in neutral before going down for 1st worked to get mine selecting all 5 gears. Obvasley the spring was replaced after it was ridden home the 50ks when that happened. BW that's the outer shaft spring, not the buried deep spring.
The Sock
Hero member
- Location
- London, England
That was going to be my suggestion if it goes easily into neutral, Vince.
not that it really helps ... I had the 'where's first' issue after totally unrelated (head) work and now have a 'where's neutral' issue
fiddling the selector adjustment solved 'first' but I still need to find 'neutral' at about 2 mph / kmh before stopping
otherwise a crisp, clean shift
my point being that LAVS seem to be very finicky in every respect ... so some perseverance / tweaks generally work
fiddling the selector adjustment solved 'first' but I still need to find 'neutral' at about 2 mph / kmh before stopping
otherwise a crisp, clean shift
my point being that LAVS seem to be very finicky in every respect ... so some perseverance / tweaks generally work
Tippie
Hero member
- Location
- Dr?bak, Norway
I have never seen one that would select gears just with fingers on the selectors. There is a quite strong spring keeping things in place. Look at an engine diagram.hi Sock it goes into neutral nice and easy can get all the gears with just my fingers on the shaft no problems just first
The Sock
Hero member
- Location
- London, England
TIppie's talking about the spring(36) in the first picture.
These pages from the Handbook, which came with mine, may help:
These pages from the Handbook, which came with mine, may help:
Hard to select stationary / easy just prior to stopping, most times was a dragging or similar clutch issue, times past, perhaps notching on the clutch outer drum triangle splines, for what that is worth. j
With the back wheel free of contact with ground, and a willing helper, hand rotate the back wheel while selecting all the gears ie as the motor would operate on the road usual riding. The symptoms read to me as a tight to achieve ideal pawl adjustment. Plan ZZ would be remove the motor, unless a firm reason cannot be found for the hard to select first, even if you need to over adjust to select first and lose the other gears for a moment. Something you mentioned has my attention, acelav, you indicate ability to select the working gears by "hand or fingers" that is not easy to do applying rotational direction directly on the geared input shaft, for want of a better word, or do you mean with the usual gear selection lever engaging on the geared input selector ( fork actuation barrel )? The Laverda global mechanic coven is on standby.... spooky is it not? j.
Very variable according to state of the clutch and the whole clutch lifting mechanism from handlebar to bar in the clutch hub.
Paul
Are you sure the pin for first, n° 20 on the diagram is present. They can fall out, particularly if the washer n° 13 is absent.hi Sock it goes into neutral nice and easy can get all the gears with just my fingers on the shaft no problems just first
Paul
chrisk
Hero member
- Location
- Brisbane, Australia
Pull it out, split cases and see WTF is stopping it! Report back and ….. Hurry Upupdate!!!!! I've taken out the Cam chain tensioner as the sock suggested and the blade is there can't see the chain so it's in one piece also can select second to top with no problem with just my fingers on the shaft nice and easy, so I guess it's time to think about taking the engine out and have a look at the gear box internals, or any other things to try before that
CLEMTOG
Hero member
"hi Clem tried your advice but still no good can get everything but first"
with the cam cover off, undo the one cap screw and copper washer that retains the tensioner blade (adjuster loose as can be) and lift it out, a complete blade will have a portion of steel not lined at the bottom, when fitting new these have to be bent slighty to clear the chain, if it not done a lump can "wear" off and cause selector rotation problems, with the cam cover off, you can also see the other side, there is a plastic guide, not removable without lifting the head and cylinders, but there is space to see down there with a borescope, or maybe a torch and mirror, it lies the whole length of the cylinder block.
Jock Mc Straps comments are hugely valid (grieves me to say) it would seem like something is preventing the selector drum rotating, before you rip out the motor, try turning the selector gear by hand, with the inner cover fitted outer removed and selector fork off, there is a factory tool for this but you h=can easilly turn it with a screwdriver or pump pliers, still cant get first gear? shine the torch use magnet aerial inside and look for debris, still no good? remove the primary cover then, using a torch and a Magnet aerial poke around in there (with the selector in fifth gear) and see if you can hook anything metal, not at all easy and not a lot of access, (maybe a magnet securely tied to a bit of S/S lockwire would be better) worth a shot, you could do the same with the two access doors under the engine (exhaust system off), if this fails and you still have a problem, it strip down time and of course all the "while you are at it" scenarios that go with it.
CLEM
with the cam cover off, undo the one cap screw and copper washer that retains the tensioner blade (adjuster loose as can be) and lift it out, a complete blade will have a portion of steel not lined at the bottom, when fitting new these have to be bent slighty to clear the chain, if it not done a lump can "wear" off and cause selector rotation problems, with the cam cover off, you can also see the other side, there is a plastic guide, not removable without lifting the head and cylinders, but there is space to see down there with a borescope, or maybe a torch and mirror, it lies the whole length of the cylinder block.
Jock Mc Straps comments are hugely valid (grieves me to say) it would seem like something is preventing the selector drum rotating, before you rip out the motor, try turning the selector gear by hand, with the inner cover fitted outer removed and selector fork off, there is a factory tool for this but you h=can easilly turn it with a screwdriver or pump pliers, still cant get first gear? shine the torch use magnet aerial inside and look for debris, still no good? remove the primary cover then, using a torch and a Magnet aerial poke around in there (with the selector in fifth gear) and see if you can hook anything metal, not at all easy and not a lot of access, (maybe a magnet securely tied to a bit of S/S lockwire would be better) worth a shot, you could do the same with the two access doors under the engine (exhaust system off), if this fails and you still have a problem, it strip down time and of course all the "while you are at it" scenarios that go with it.
CLEM
View attachment IMG_12181274.MOV
Thanks for the help and advice so far this thing called work keeps getting in the way of trying to sort this problem out first Paul all the pins are in place and the washer to hold them in is there as well, Clem took out the cam chain tensioner blade i think all is ok with that, took the outer cover off to see if i could see anything but think i need one of those little pin camera will have a look on the web can move the shaft up but not down past natural
Mmmm, if i was there, a quick test would be to "over" index the alignment marks, ie mis-align the marks by one tooth, back wheel off the ground, rotate back wheel in drive direction and try to select 1 N 2, would mis-align +1 tooth and -1 tooth, repeat test. There are a number of tests to do that will not take long to perform, lot less effort or time, than pull a motor down, pulled a motor to pieces once, all for the simple leaking exhaust header copper seals over compressed ( dpo ). HTH j
Tippie
Hero member
- Location
- Dr?bak, Norway
Have you removed the neutral switch? The plunger might not be retracting, and stopping the selector from rotating past it.
Well spotted Tippie!, and i just watched the video, does indeed select with hand engagement of the gear drive to the selector drum, nice diagnostic vid acelav, the "Tippie Tip
" could be a pointer to an asymmetric wear on the tip of the neutral switch, seen that previous without causing a locked half barrel, await your decision to test the removal of neutral switch, ie drains the sump oil.Just watched the vid again, the down shift from 3rd to 2nd made hardly any real change on the output shaft sprocket displacement, you would think a change in ratio would see a change in sprocket net position? Been ages since i have checked a gearbox selection pattern when assembling a motor. Others may point out a perfect mesh 3rd to 2nd, have to have a box in front of me in a lower crank case no upper. Be a reason for this, as odd as it outwardly appears.....j
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