Cannot select neutral with motor running – RGS

A god place to start would be deburring those spines, reckon with the engine spinning there is just enough friction to lock up the plates. If nothing else it would eliminate one potential cause.
 
Go through the whole lot.
If you've been running it with the spring screws insufficiently tightened to get it to vaguely function, something is very wrong.

Paul
 
I think you will find that your Ducati dealer has installed a plain plate between the first two lined plates, that item should not be there, you can ditch the anti rattle springs completely, they dont do much anyway, are a pain to install and you need a special tool (idealy) but you dont want to increase the thickness of your stack, (can cause drag) there is no need for a plain plate between the first two lined pates unless its not a road bike. Some people fail to understand that these two plates rotate together at all times and there is only slip between the lined and plain plates.

Getting neutral at a standstill can sometimes prove difficult, if this happens to me, then I simply "take the load" with the clutch lever partially released and then I can snick neutral, the wheels might rotate 5 degrees when I do this, so try it!
CLEM
 
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CLEMTOG said:
I think you will find that your Ducati dealer has installed a plain plate between the first two lined plates, that item should not be there, you can ditch the anti rattle sporings completely, they dont do much anyway, are a pain to install and you need a special tool (idealy) but you dont want to increase the thickness of your stack, (can cause dratg) there is no need for a plain plate between the first two lined pates unless its not a road bike. Some people fail to understand that these two plates rotate together at all times and there is only slip between the lined and plain plates.

Getting neutral at a standstill can sometimes prove difficult, if this happens to me, then I simply "take the load" with the clutch lever partially released and then I can snick neutral, the wheels might rotate 5 degrees when I do this, so try it!
CLEM
Click to expand...

I'll dismantle it again and take some photos of the clutch pack.

There are no anti-rattle springs, I don't know who removed them. The bloke who worked on it when I first bought it didn't say anything. I think I am the third owner.

I might not get to it until the weekend now.

Thanks again everyone.
 
Yeah - start with what you have changed and work from there backwards. Have you also overhauled the master? Sometimes dirt blocks the hole(s) at the bottom a bit which might be enough for not pumping enough through. I think we had that here (or in the German forum...?1?) at least once, too (but more when trying to bleed the system). Or it's simply worn and some of the fluid bypasses the master's piston... but 90% of my clutch problems had to do with the rods and the balls... (of that system... 😇 ;) )
 
Clutch spring tension is non-adjustable, the bolts should be done up tight, 10Nm for the anoraks. Insufficient spring tension will not cause bad shifting, only clutch slip.

The busted spring cannot be the reason for bad neutral selection unless it jammed itself somewhere between the works. As it still doesn't work satisfactorily with a new spring, the cause must lie elsewhere. Bad neutral/gear selection is usually a sign of insufficient clutch seperation. Either the hydraulics are not up to scratch and do not offer the required travel to seperate the plates, or either clutch drum or hub (or both) are so badly indented by the plates that these are prevented from sliding along their splines once spring pressure is released. De-burring the drum and hub splines may help a little, for a while, but replacement is the only real long-term fix.

piet
 
Chappo said:
<snip> Before, when I would start the bike and put it into gear, it would lurch forward and stall, presumably because the clutch plates were sticking. It would do this once, maybe twice, depending how long it had been sitting. Now, it does this a half dozen times, or more, and it is much more violent. <snip>

Here is the witness mark of the lurching forward.
View attachment 68908
Click to expand...
That is crazy. And you say it isn't new ?! :eek:. No, no, no ... You can't live with that.

Focus on resolving this (frankly dangerous) clutch drag, and 'pound to a penny' you'll solve the 'difficulty-finding-neutral' side event.

Hopefully it's just that the clutch pack is simply mis-assembled. Check the parts book or w'shop manual for the correct sequence (and number) of plates.

And also, if you haven't done so already, check that all the actuating rods and balls are there, in good condition and in the right sequence.
 
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Agreed, this type of mechanical issue is dangerous, glad the OP is addressing the issue, the learned eyes here, indicating the various remedies. Post a picie of my "anti sticking clutch" remedy later on today, overcast and rain in south coast of NSW, Australia, nice temperature all the same. j.
 
Hello everyone. I’m back fiddling with mio bike :-)

Here is a video showing how much the pressure plate moves.


All the clutch plate’s thickness measure a gnat’s whisker under 3mm.
The clutch spring lengths are between 41 and 42mm.
20230125_112604.jpg

The ball between the push rods appears not to have been spinning, which I think is correct?
It has become shaped like a lawn bowl.
20230125_112233.jpg

20230125_114149.jpg

The clutch centre has plenty of deep witness marks.

20230125_112021.jpg

Would it be worth cleaning the clutch plates with turps? Roughing them with some sandpaper?

20230125_113553.jpg

I’m going to spend the afternoon filing the clutch basket and centre, and then put it back together.
 
You may be wondering why Hooksey is recommending a new clutch pack before your plates are worn out (minimum thickness is 2.5mm). The original friction material will start slipping before you get to the 2.5mm limit. You may also have problems with clutch adjustment because the clutch pack will be too thin. The original material is prone to sticking too, which can be a pain in the arse. I hadn't considered possible damage to the hub, but Hooksey may be onto something. Your hub looks pretty beat-up.

New Kevlar friction material performs better (less prone to slipping) and doesn't stick itself together.

The original clutch on my Jota was slipping like mad when I bought the bike. When I took it apart, the plates were about 2.7mm. The clutch had run out of adjustment at the cable, so the previous owner ground a few mm off a pushrod to get adjustment back :rolleyes:
I got an exchange set of Kevlar plates from Red. I turned up a spacer washer to go between the square toggle bar and the clutch basket to make up the missing length off the pushrod. Clutch has performed perfectly ever since.

It would be a good time to replace the plates while you have the clutch apart.
 
I think there is a world shortage of Kevlar at the moment, lots of Gun Action in Ukraine apparently and I think Red has trouble supplying. I hope he finds I fix as there Way better than standard plates.
 
I will just about bet that you didn't line up those cutout sections in the outer drum with the springs that hook the two inner friction plates togeather that's caused the whole assembly to bind up and not completely separate, have a look and see if those two little tensions are now all mangled.
 
As Ventodue says.
Replace all the worn bits, including the ball and pushrods.

And lube the clutch cable. RGS? No clutch cable then, so renew hydraulic seals and fluid.

Paul
 
male segments on inner clutch hub look cattle trucked, and we dont see a picture of the internal splines on the outer, they may be fornicated as well, some dressing will restore use, but may cause rattle, new ones would be ideal, used ones is probably the answer, but these spares are getting hard to find now, not an easy re-manufacture.

You say the anti rattle spprings have been removed? (very common and why not?) if so there should not be a steel plate between those two (first on) plates, they should be lined to lined, maybe an extra plate is causing your lack of lift clearance?
CLEM
 
Chappo said:
Would it be worth cleaning the clutch plates with turps? Roughing them with some sandpaper?
Click to expand...
Won't/doesn't hurt, altho' I use paraffin rather than white spirit (and certainly NOT 'turps' as in "turpentine").

And don't go crazy with the abrasive paper - you only want to lightly scour off any glazing.
 
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