A fascinating read! Not original to either of them...Quote Origin: The Harder I Practice, the Luckier I Get – Quote Investigator®
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- Thread starter TeddyG
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I have no problem with Italy. I find the drivers pretty considerate of others, but not the rules.
That tends to be the opposite the more you go North. Less considerate of people.
Paul
Shajota
Hero member
- Location
- Whitsundays Qld
Of course unexpected outcomes play a part in everything and the level of risk is different for each activity you undertake, whether you call it luck, fate or some sort of religious intervention (Punishment or reward - Amen!!).
A neighbour I had years ago used to get all covered up, face visor and all, whenever he would do his mowing or whipper snipping. I don’t.
I don’t seek safety from a higher being so that must mean I have been lucky and most others that don’t wear all the protection have all lost an eye by now!!
I have always been a believer that when your time’s up, it’s up and nothing is going to stop it, but I also accept it is best not to give fate a helping hand, accepting eliminating risk totally is unachievable! (outcomes from mishaps other than death should also be included in this)
What irks me is that we live in an agenda driven society and those agendas are driven by bureaucrats, politicians, business groups with vested interests and other various “interest” groups who have a much higher opinion of their intelligence than others do.
(Just look at the News these days and see how things are reported - outrage, fear, dire consequences, unprecedented etc etc)
Reactions to motorcycle accidents usually tread a well worn path but also rarely do they say outright what the actual main cause was, although someone doing 160 in a built up area and hitting a light pole is usually quite obvious and outside the bounds of legislation.
Inevitably we get the mantra that motorcycles are dangerous, need to slow down, need lights, need high vis vests etc etc. Reported correlation to individual crashes - don’t you worry about that!
Visibility is an interesting one because it also requires the car driver to actually look and have the ability to judge distances and speed, something a single bright light can clearly interfere with......
Myself and a couple of mates started riding when we were about 12, riding old road bikes in the state forrest which started at the end of our street. We don’t claim to have any greater skills but it taught us a lot about motorcycles and awareness required. (While we were always trying to dodge trees on single very narrow trails we were also constantly trying to stay one step ahead of the local police sergeant who could never quite catch us – something he discussed with me in detail when I eventually was old enough to get a license from him!!
)
Notwithstanding the inescapable time line of your life it is good practice to heed all the early advice most of us would have been given when we started riding.
Riding a motorcycle you have to always remain vigilant, scanning constantly and be much more aware of your surroundings which includes changing road surfaces, traffic movement, tell tale signs of someone in another vehicle unsure of what they will do next and always assume you are invisible!
The mantra of “I didn’t see him” should most definitely be replaced with “I didn’t look” and mindsets might be reset.
Attitude to risk differs and we all make our choices………………
A neighbour I had years ago used to get all covered up, face visor and all, whenever he would do his mowing or whipper snipping. I don’t.
I don’t seek safety from a higher being so that must mean I have been lucky and most others that don’t wear all the protection have all lost an eye by now!!
I have always been a believer that when your time’s up, it’s up and nothing is going to stop it, but I also accept it is best not to give fate a helping hand, accepting eliminating risk totally is unachievable! (outcomes from mishaps other than death should also be included in this)
What irks me is that we live in an agenda driven society and those agendas are driven by bureaucrats, politicians, business groups with vested interests and other various “interest” groups who have a much higher opinion of their intelligence than others do.
(Just look at the News these days and see how things are reported - outrage, fear, dire consequences, unprecedented etc etc)
Reactions to motorcycle accidents usually tread a well worn path but also rarely do they say outright what the actual main cause was, although someone doing 160 in a built up area and hitting a light pole is usually quite obvious and outside the bounds of legislation.
Inevitably we get the mantra that motorcycles are dangerous, need to slow down, need lights, need high vis vests etc etc. Reported correlation to individual crashes - don’t you worry about that!
Visibility is an interesting one because it also requires the car driver to actually look and have the ability to judge distances and speed, something a single bright light can clearly interfere with......
Myself and a couple of mates started riding when we were about 12, riding old road bikes in the state forrest which started at the end of our street. We don’t claim to have any greater skills but it taught us a lot about motorcycles and awareness required. (While we were always trying to dodge trees on single very narrow trails we were also constantly trying to stay one step ahead of the local police sergeant who could never quite catch us – something he discussed with me in detail when I eventually was old enough to get a license from him!!
)Notwithstanding the inescapable time line of your life it is good practice to heed all the early advice most of us would have been given when we started riding.
Riding a motorcycle you have to always remain vigilant, scanning constantly and be much more aware of your surroundings which includes changing road surfaces, traffic movement, tell tale signs of someone in another vehicle unsure of what they will do next and always assume you are invisible!
The mantra of “I didn’t see him” should most definitely be replaced with “I didn’t look” and mindsets might be reset.
Attitude to risk differs and we all make our choices………………
hooksey
Hero member
- Location
- Vic , Australia
Someone buy the man a beerOf course unexpected outcomes play a part in everything and the level of risk is different for each activity you undertake, whether you call it luck, fate or some sort of religious intervention (Punishment or reward - Amen!!).
A neighbour I had years ago used to get all covered up, face visor and all, whenever he would do his mowing or whipper snipping. I don’t.
I don’t seek safety from a higher being so that must mean I have been lucky and most others that don’t wear all the protection have all lost an eye by now!!
I have always been a believer that when your time’s up, it’s up and nothing is going to stop it, but I also accept it is best not to give fate a helping hand, accepting eliminating risk totally is unachievable! (outcomes from mishaps other than death should also be included in this)
What irks me is that we live in an agenda driven society and those agendas are driven by bureaucrats, politicians, business groups with vested interests and other various “interest” groups who have a much higher opinion of their intelligence than others do.
(Just look at the News these days and see how things are reported - outrage, fear, dire consequences, unprecedented etc etc)
Reactions to motorcycle accidents usually tread a well worn path but also rarely do they say outright what the actual main cause was, although someone doing 160 in a built up area and hitting a light pole is usually quite obvious and outside the bounds of legislation.
Inevitably we get the mantra that motorcycles are dangerous, need to slow down, need lights, need high vis vests etc etc. Reported correlation to individual crashes - don’t you worry about that!
Visibility is an interesting one because it also requires the car driver to actually look and have the ability to judge distances and speed, something a single bright light can clearly interfere with......
Myself and a couple of mates started riding when we were about 12, riding old road bikes in the state forrest which started at the end of our street. We don’t claim to have any greater skills but it taught us a lot about motorcycles and awareness required. (While we were always trying to dodge trees on single very narrow trails we were also constantly trying to stay one step ahead of the local police sergeant who could never quite catch us – something he discussed with me in detail when I eventually was old enough to get a license from him!!
Notwithstanding the inescapable time line of your life it is good practice to heed all the early advice most of us would have been given when we started riding.
Riding a motorcycle you have to always remain vigilant, scanning constantly and be much more aware of your surroundings which includes changing road surfaces, traffic movement, tell tale signs of someone in another vehicle unsure of what they will do next and always assume you are invisible!
The mantra of “I didn’t see him” should most definitely be replaced with “I didn’t look” and mindsets might be reset.
Attitude to risk differs and we all make our choices………………
Peter- luv ya wrk mate
motoddrob
Hero member
- Location
- S/W Australia
I bet statistics say more people die on motorcycles with lights on than with lights off. I also wont be riding motorcycles with hi-vis vests either.
My leathers are black as with my helmets, and I don't ride with lights on.
My working career involved table saws, router tables and the like and none of my machines have safety guards. I was a model maker which means my fingers got real close to cutting edges, guards just get in the way. I still have all my fingers but maybe one day I'll be shit out of luck and have an accident. I'm also a serious non conformist and don't like being told what I can or cannot do. Is why I live my life the way I do, out of the main stream.
My leathers are black as with my helmets, and I don't ride with lights on.
My working career involved table saws, router tables and the like and none of my machines have safety guards. I was a model maker which means my fingers got real close to cutting edges, guards just get in the way. I still have all my fingers but maybe one day I'll be shit out of luck and have an accident. I'm also a serious non conformist and don't like being told what I can or cannot do. Is why I live my life the way I do, out of the main stream.
I remember one of the dozens of special individuals I worked with accusing me of being frightened of the very big very powerful Autindoph Table Saw, 300mm blade dia, 1800mm wide and 4mitre long, we worked with, fucken oath I was scared of it. That idiot might have kept the end of his right index finger if he had been more scared. He didn't even notice it was gone till it squirted blood on his face. As an Apprentice, in a big Joinery Shop, it was pretty shocking to see the state of the hands of the 2 old, in their 60s Wood Machines back then. Lots of missing digits. They used to work with some diabolically dangerous machines. Multiple-headed big overhead routers and Spindles that had the habit of latching into bits of people and pulling them in deeper.
Andy
Hero member
- Location
- Auckland, roughly
I have a few mates who are truck drivers. Over a beer or two a common complaint is stupid car drivers who cause all the accidents involving trucks, and of course it gets reported as “truck involved” and consequently the public assume trucks are the problem. I daren’t tell them I’ve seen the accident investigation results, proving that the truck was at fault in about 70% of cases.
I worry that it’s similar for motorcyclists (not us on this forum obviously
) but it doesn’t half make me cringe when I see some of the antics by blokes (mostly) who are young enough to be bulletproof. And as for this modern fashion for a T-shirt, vest and bare hands… I’m no advocate for a full suit just to go round the block, but could they at least wear gloves…?
I worry that it’s similar for motorcyclists (not us on this forum obviously
) but it doesn’t half make me cringe when I see some of the antics by blokes (mostly) who are young enough to be bulletproof. And as for this modern fashion for a T-shirt, vest and bare hands… I’m no advocate for a full suit just to go round the block, but could they at least wear gloves…?Beware of non conformist medical staff.
Paul
Gerald
Hero member
I assume all your travelling in Italy was recreational, Paul? Back roads and the occasional main country road?
Back in the 80's and 90's I was very close to being wiped out on several counts.
Truck drivers on the Autostrada del Sole putting on turn signals in the right lane and pulling out, regardless of traffic in the left lane!!
A-holes on the Strada Statale 1 Via Aurelia overtaking with oncoming traffic (me!)
Hasn't changed for the better, and all the bad driving habits seem to have migrated across the Alps...
Gerald
Laverdalothar
Hero member
- Location
- Germany
Exactly my experience, Andy...I have a few mates who are truck drivers. Over a beer or two a common complaint is stupid car drivers who cause all the accidents involving trucks, and of course it gets reported as “truck involved” and consequently the public assume trucks are the problem. I daren’t tell them I’ve seen the accident investigation results, proving that the truck was at fault in about 70% of cases.
I worry that it’s similar for motorcyclists (not us on this forum obviously
I droped my bike on a testride (less than 10 km) due to cold tires and me not giving enough attention the traffic (saw to late that the cars in front of me stopped and overbraked the front)
Without leather, I would have had serious injuries at least to my skin, my knees (as I fell on the left one) and other parts of my body. Lesson learned, I will never ever, not even for the shortest distance go without serious protection. Even if it's uncomfortable, takes some minutes to put on or if you sweat in it - all is better than laying in Hospital, getting skin transplants or nails and screws into your bones really.
Bad habits must have migrated across the Alps. I always found Italian roads pretty cool.
Paul
chrisk
Hero member
- Location
- Brisbane, Australia
When the ambulance guys said they’d have to cut my boot off my broken leg I wasn’t very happy.
They were only a few days old
Every crash I’ve had, protective gear has been buggered. That shit ain’t cheap.
I drive around 200,000klms a year, and have run into Kangaroos, goats, sheep, birds and even a horse. The results are never pleasant.
A bloke on a motorbike, wearing every possible sort of protective gear has no chance against a 80 tonne truck doing highway speed.
A couple of shots after hitting the horse at 100kph. It was standing across the road at night.
I had to put the wipers on to get the guts and shit off the windscreen, so I could see where I was going.
I drove three hours in rain before taking these shots the next morning, most of the splat had been washed off.
They were only a few days old
Every crash I’ve had, protective gear has been buggered. That shit ain’t cheap.
I drive around 200,000klms a year, and have run into Kangaroos, goats, sheep, birds and even a horse. The results are never pleasant.
A bloke on a motorbike, wearing every possible sort of protective gear has no chance against a 80 tonne truck doing highway speed.
A couple of shots after hitting the horse at 100kph. It was standing across the road at night.
I had to put the wipers on to get the guts and shit off the windscreen, so I could see where I was going.
I drove three hours in rain before taking these shots the next morning, most of the splat had been washed off.
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Laverdalothar
Hero member
- Location
- Germany
Easy question: Which way do you see a better chance to reduce your injuries if it comes to a crash, with or without protective gear on, please?
If it's to much force, I agree, you won't survive either way. However, protective gear will help you survive crashes that you won't survive without them. That's a simple fact and I love my live and my fairly healthy body as it is. it get's weaker every day anyway, I don't need to speed that process up.
If it's to much force, I agree, you won't survive either way. However, protective gear will help you survive crashes that you won't survive without them. That's a simple fact and I love my live and my fairly healthy body as it is. it get's weaker every day anyway, I don't need to speed that process up.
Shajota
Hero member
- Location
- Whitsundays Qld
Easy question, easy answer Lothar - of course you have a better chance all togged up!
But that's a binary question, the type politicians ask to get the answer they want.
Perhaps in your survey a follow up question could be "Is it safer to sit on your lounge drinking hot chocolate?"
We all need to evaluate risk and probabilities involved in anything we do.
As an example an elderly fellow was killed this morning in Brisbane when a vehicle mounted the footpath and hit him when he was walking!!
Should he have been wearing protective gear or should he have just stayed at home?
It is clearly obvious that as we get older we are more risk averse so fair enough and I am not trying to downplay the value of protective gear, just some of the Atgatt stuff gets way over the top.
Anyway I think there's quite enough in the classic bike scene who would prefer to sit at home and drink hot chocolate, so I'll pass, but to each their own
piranha-bro2
Hero member
- Location
- Melbourne
Too true Peter. When they push the 'Lose 5 to save lives' or whatever the little marketing grab was, or they reduce the speed limit on an open country road to 80 because it has curves, I think to myself that the end game is reduce the speed limit to zero - because even a 5kph or 10kph limit is still going to see someone somewhere fuk up and cause an injury or a death.
At the end of the day, if you like riding with pace, you simply have to break the law and take your chances against the enforcers - and for your own sake, wear the right gear.
At the end of the day, if you like riding with pace, you simply have to break the law and take your chances against the enforcers - and for your own sake, wear the right gear.
Yep, it's the current game I play to win. That's why I use my phone with camera alerts and stay below license loosing speeds. Mostly I am successful and as a moving target mostly just above traffic I have found it much safer as well. Blending into traffic or even more stupidly travelling below traffic speed is just looking to be run into. Reminds me of following an overseas visitor at night heading back to Sydney on the major state's expressway at between 90 and 100kph when the limit was 110 and constantly being passed by everybody, way too scary for me. The odd thing was he was German, with I expect Autobarn experience.
78jotadave
Hero member
Luck, it's all about your luck
There is definitely that as well, i get alerts from the NSW Cops on FB about recent busts and it amazes me how many idiots get caught 40 and more over the speed limit and that's not in the bush. It is in suburban streets, even school zones. So your luck can run out if you encounter some of these idiots doing way beyond reasonable stuff. Case in point, a recent accident mid-Hourbour Bridge, in the middle of the day, a stolen car, driver on Ice ends up rolling it at speed. Nobody is safe from insane shit like that. Been watching some Karren Utube vids out of the USA on Drink Driving, so many over 0.2. That absolute blind drunk, so scary to see.
Alzero
Hero member
- Location
- DaNang Vietnam
And then there is this:
jalopnik.com
Just after 12:00 noon driving drunk and he pulled his gun on a uniformed officer…….
This guy was sober and he emptied his gun into his own patrol car:
jalopnik.com
Florida Cop Who Crashed Cruiser Into Other Cop Car: 'I Drank Too Much' - Jalopnik
Police officers don’t exactly have the best reputation these days, and one Florida cop’s actions haven’t done much to improve that reputation. As Local 10 reports, on Tuesday, Detective Victor Manuel Montalvo was driving an unmarked Miami-Dade Police Department car when he crashed into another...
jalopnik.com
Just after 12:00 noon driving drunk and he pulled his gun on a uniformed officer…….
This guy was sober and he emptied his gun into his own patrol car:
Florida Cop Empties His Gun, Runs For Cover After Acorn Falls On Car - Jalopnik
Loads of people feel skittish on the job and can be spooked by the slightest noise, but if you’re that kind of person it’s maybe not a good idea to have a career that lets you loose on the streets with a loaded weapon. Something Florida cops are likely to consider after video emerged this week...
jalopnik.com
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