1969 twin production - discrepancy between The Green Book and Laverda Mania Register...

[general_piffle]

I noticed there's a big gap between info in the Laverda Mania Register, where production for 1969 twins begins at VIN: 1556 and The Green Book where 1969 production is suggested to start at approximately VIN: 1650.

That's a difference of almost 100 bikes!

However, the two sources then align again for 1970, with production starting at VIN: 2798 in the Laverda Mania Register and approx. VIN: 2800 in The Green Book.

So, who's more likely to be correct about when production started for 1969 twins according to engine/frame numbers?

 

[IAG]

What would the significance be? Back then unsold/unallocated inventory rolled into the next model year-GT/S models were unchanged save for nuances like seat stenciling & petrol tank style.

 

[chrisk]

Maybe they were the Police bikes?

 

[Alzero]

What would the significance be? Back then unsold/unallocated inventory rolled into the next model year-GT/S models were unchanged save for nuances like seat stenciling & petrol tank style.

Changing the fuel tank shape was not an inconsiderable expense for the factory. The tooling and dies were not cheap for a small company, it might seem like a nuance now, but I suspect it was a bit more than that at the time.

 

[IAG]

Changing the fuel tank shape was not an inconsiderable expense for the factory. The tooling and dies were not cheap for a small company, it might seem like a nuance now, but I suspect it was a bit more than that at the time.

The economics of motorcycle production is secondary to my point of model year significance- what is the estimated run of AE models? 150?

 

[MarnixSFC]

Firstly, the green book states production numbers, where the registry at best shows road registration dates, so there’s an discrepancy to start with.
Secondly, in those early production months the frame numbers were inconsistent, so it’s hard to define what was the first bike of the new production year. See it as nothing more than an indication.

Marnix

 

[general_piffle]

What would the significance be? Back then unsold/unallocated inventory rolled into the next model year-GT/S models were unchanged save for nuances like seat stenciling & petrol tank style.

For the accuracy of the history and heritage of the marque. While we can probably never be 100% certain of say the exact first VIN for 1969 production (or any other year for that matter) we can at least be as close as possible. The Green Book hedges its bets by saying production for '69 bikes began 'approximately' at VIN: 1650.

It matter more when it comes to dating and registering a bike that's been brought in from one country to another and has limited documentation. Allowing for the issue of an age appropriate registration plate - at least in the UK.

 

[Exmoor beast]

Maybe they were the Police bikes?

I have a Guzzi that was built for the Yugoslav military,its Olive green but overpainted the original dark Blue, so it was destined for the domestic Police only to be commandeered for an urgent export order and quickly sprayed. Italian factory records are never going to be the same as German factory records.

 

[Exmoor beast]

For the accuracy of the history and heritage of the marque. While we can probably never be 100% certain of say the exact first VIN for 1969 production (or any other year for that matter) we can at least be as close as possible. The Green Book hedges its bets by saying production for '69 bikes began 'approximately' at VIN: 1650.

It matter more when it comes to dating and registering a bike that's been brought in from one country to another and has limited documentation. Allowing for the issue of an age appropriate registration plate - at least in the UK.

Then that’s down to what Clem says not any Single book!

 

[general_piffle]

Then that’s down to what Clem says not any Single book!

Yes, but even Clem must draw his data from somewhere!

 

[Exmoor beast]

Yes, but even Clem must draw his data from somewhere!

I think the data changes as someone comes up with a bike that doesn’t fit the existing lists. Never going to be an exact science with an Italian factory- it was all a bit day to day then. I know more about the Guzzi factory and they did all sorts to keep factory afloat, odd bikes made up from random parts, old stock being sold years after production- I would imagine it was a similar set up.

 

[Vince]

I thought model changes tended to happen after the August Summer holidays, that's a bit like a mid-year change. My big guess.

 

[Paul Marx]

I thought model changes tended to happen after the August Summer holidays, that's a bit like a mid-year change. My big guess.

Nobody mentioned model changes.
Paul

 

[CLEMTOG]

I do
I have had many arguments over "what year" and "what value" none of that is pleasant to say the least, and yes I know I have been wrong a few times but as you get further "into it" you get better at it, (I hope) some bikes are harder than others, the Atlas is always a bit of a problem, with the second series still being available when the third series was already in the shops, and never an official UK import, so what does one do? when it was manufactured, is what is stated to be used by DVLA (UK registration authority) and that is what I have to do my level best to find out, the 40 year rule, where road tax and MOT are brushed aside, now that there are lots of bikes that qualify, has changed things, a few years ago plenty were trying to swing the lead by as much as six years in order to gain that status, but this has largely dried up, 1972 SF3 anybody??? ("I fitted the mag wheels, swing arm, rear disc, rear master cylinder, hinged seat, headlight, switches, etc etc at a later date") and a chassis/engine number in the 19400's with SF3 stamped on the gearbox lug????????
CLEM

 

[IAG]

For the accuracy of the history and heritage of the marque. While we can probably never be 100% certain of say the exact first VIN for 1969 production (or any other year for that matter) we can at least be as close as possible. The Green Book hedges its bets by saying production for '69 bikes began 'approximately' at VIN: 1650.

It matter more when it comes to dating and registering a bike that's been brought in from one country to another and has limited documentation. Allowing for the issue of an age appropriate registration plate - at least in the UK.

Limited documentation is always a problem- the concern w/ Laverda is a lack of factory records for official reference. I doubt the Green Book or Laverdamania forum would be recognized as legit by a government bureau but it's possible. In the US there are always ways to navigate around title & registration issues- I have no experience w/ EU, etc processes. Back to the original point: If your AE model is titled '68, '69 or even '70, etc- what would the concern be? GT/S/SS may merit different valuations per individual preference but all are rare & model year isn't a factor.

 

[Vince]

When I tried to get Historic Rego, much cheaper on my original TL Pantah I had the same issue. After some research I discovered all TL Pantahs were built in 1982 by Ducati so qualified for the 25-year rule so off I went to the RTA with all my carefully recorded history, nobody cared nobody looked at my documentation, nobody checked. 30 minutes later it was completely done. Never underestimate the laziness of public servants, maybe it was just the luck of the draw.

 

[Paul Marx]

Just slip a few notes to the person who'll certify that your 750 is a 1957 model and be done.
Then you can write a book on Laverda which will have people debating in 20 years time though in 20 years time nobody will give a shit about some obscure extinct provincial Italian marque.

Now Moto Ceccato made just up the road in Montecchio Maggiore is another thing altogether.

 

[Exmoor beast]

Just slip a few notes to the person who'll certify that your 750 is a 1957 model and be done.
Then you can write a book on Laverda which will have people debating in 20 years time though in 20 years time nobody will give a shit about some obscure extinct provincial Italian marque.

Now Moto Ceccato made just up the road in Montecchio Maggiore is another thing altogether.

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Might work in France but dealing with DVLC is like Chinese water torture. They sent my wad back saying I needed an MOT a week before they changed the rules. Sent it back by return of post and they accepted it..
Mate of mine exported a Kawasaki trials bike to France ( pre Brexit) and it was a nightmare paperwork wise-
My next nightmare is registering an Austrian scooter, with barely visible vin number, with possibly a Greek number plate with no paperwork whatsoever - looks like I’ll have to get bit creative With the facts….

 

[Gerald]

looks like I’ll have to get bit creative With the facts….

was used to be called a Swansea fiddle?

 

[Paul Marx]

Might work in France but dealing with DVLC is like Chinese water torture. They sent my wad back saying I needed an MOT a week before they changed the rules. Sent it back by return of post and they accepted it..
Mate of mine exported a Kawasaki trials bike to France ( pre Brexit) and it was a nightmare paperwork wise-
My next nightmare is registering an Austrian scooter, with barely visible vin number, with possibly a Greek number plate with no paperwork whatsoever - looks like I’ll have to get bit creative With the facts….

Well, believe me, it's a lot simpler in the UK than in France. Pre Brexit, to avoid complications, we registered a bike with Belgian documents in the UK so as to import it more easily into France. A piece of cake. I just registered 4 small Laverda without documents in my possession for the last 25 years in Belgium so as to import them with Belgian documents into France. It took just over a year. The first one just came through.
Paul