1974 SF2 - Canada

I find that really odd, Paul, cos I ran my SF1 for decades and several hundred thousand km with rigidly mounted Ducati Contis, including race seasons and thousands of km on rugged Australian outback unsealed roads, corrugated to buggery and loaded with bulldust) - and never once had to retighten my headers at the flange. It's the system you can see part of in my avatar.
Yes, rigidly mounted. If the silencers are rubber mounted, there is nothing rigid. The clamping of the pipes to the head isn't rigid, it'll move and grind away the copper gaskets, loosen the clamping and your engine pops and bangs every two hours of use because you have an air leak.

Rigidly mounting the silencers is taking the risk of vibration induced fractures of the exhaust system somewhere.

The front of engine cross over pipe stops the pipes from rotating and the silencer mount of the older bikes is rubber but allows a lot less movement than the bobbins fitted to SF1,2,3. Maybe using triple type twin rubber mounts for the silencers would do away with the problem?

Paul
 
Good points, Paul. I think Lee solid mounts the headers at the low point of the frame and then the mufflers can wiggle around on their rubbers as much as they like and not have the cracking issues. I'm using a similar idea on the SFQ, solid mounting the headers to the neutral switch plate and rubber mounting the mufflers.
 
Good points, Paul. I think Lee solid mounts the headers at the low point of the frame and then the mufflers can wiggle around on their rubbers as much as they like and not have the cracking issues. I'm using a similar idea on the SFQ, solid mounting the headers to the neutral switch plate and rubber mounting the mufflers.
Keith Nairn does the same, pipes or headers are solidly mounted to the engine around where the banana box was.

Paul
 
Rigidly mounting the silencers is taking the risk of vibration induced fractures of the exhaust system somewhere.
I disagree Paul.

I think there's less risk of vibration induced fractures in solid mounted exhausts than with the rubber mountings.

The factory didn't do Laverda owners any favours by bolting the exhaust cans on via flexible mountings. In my opinion it's poor design.

You don't have to be Einstein to understand why. Having any structure solidly fixed at one end and flexibly mounted at the other is asking for trouble. The only way the exhaust system can accommodate the different movement between the solid end and the rubber-mounted end is by bending somewhere in between the two ends.

Rubber mounted exhaust systems only make sense if the engine is flexibly mounted, or if there's a flexible connection between the headers and mufflers.

My old 1200 triple (sold it a long time ago) had a habit of cracking the 3-1-2 collector. I had to weld it up a couple of times. I figured the problem was the cans being able to waggle around on their rubber mounts while the headers were solidly bolted to the engine. Bending at the collector was causing fatigue cracks. So I replaced the rubber muffler mounts with simple alloy spacers bolted up tight and never had any further problems.

Very few bike manufacturers use rubber mounted mufflers with a solidly mounted engine and headers. Actually, I cant think of any other than Laverda.


PS: Despite my views expressed above, my Jota still has its rubber mounts for the mufflers. That's only because the Redax big bore exhaust system on the bike hasn't fallen apart yet, so I've not had any incentive to change to solid mounts.
 
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I disagree Paul.

I think there's less risk of vibration induced fractures in solid mounted exhausts than with the rubber mountings.

The factory didn't do Laverda owners any favours by bolting the exhaust cans on via flexible mountings. In my opinion it's poor design.

You don't have to be Einstein to understand why. Having any structure solidly fixed at one end and flexibly mounted at the other is asking for trouble. The only way the exhaust system can accommodate the different movement between the solid end and the rubber-mounted end is by bending somewhere in between the two ends.

Rubber mounted exhaust systems only make sense if the engine is flexibly mounted, or if there's a flexible connection between the headers and mufflers.

My old 1200 triple (sold it a long time ago) had a habit of cracking the 3-1-2 collector. I had to weld it up a couple of times. I figured the problem was the cans being able to waggle around on their rubber mounts while the headers were solidly bolted to the engine. Bending at the collector was causing fatigue cracks. So I replaced the rubber muffler mounts with simple alloy spacers bolted up tight and never had any further problems.

Very few bike manufacturers use rubber mounted mufflers with a solidly mounted engine and headers. Actually, I cant think of any other than Laverda.


PS: Despite my views expressed above, my Jota still has its rubber mounts for the mufflers. That's only because the Redax big bore exhaust system on the bike hasn't fallen apart yet, so I've not had any incentive to change to solid mounts.
You're probably right. The silencer mounts ended up being rigid on my 3CL, I'd had enough of the rubber silent blocks breaking.
So, conclusion: if you want to do away with the banana box on a twin, mount the silencers rigidly, at least.

Paul
 
I have a stiff silentblock at the neutral plate, one under the footpeg and one at the muffler strut on my racer, has been fine. I have seen British bikes with a solid bracket at the front of the muffler, broken. My idea with twin pipes is a stiff silent block at the front of the muffler - but not done yet. KTM dirtbike had that. It is a long way from the head to the mufflers, I think resonant vibration over that length is too much.
 
Just to add a further ingredient to the recipe, the RGS based race bike I built a few years ago had a 3-1 system with an open megaphone (it sounded great). The arse end of the system had a rubber silent block mounting on a bracket about half way along the cone of the megaphone, similar to the bracket on normal Jota-style cans.
After the first track session the mounting had disconnected because the rubber had melted from the heat in the exhaust! I replaced it with an alloy spacer and it stayed together from then until I sold the bike.
So if you're in the habit of giving your bike a caning on the track, you might wanna have an occasional look at the exhaust rubbers and check them for heat damage.
 
Weird scenes from inside a goldmine (who did that album?), Cam. The factory SFC 2/1 (short as) uses a triple rubber block between frame and mega. Caned and caned some more, mine never melted - or broke. Twins are hot performers but also cool little cucumbers :cool:
 
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