750 hydraulic clutch conversion?

"Don't use a standard Laverda hydraulic set up. No lighter than a cable and it'll leave you stranded one day when either the seal lets go or the cover cracks."

Paul Marx, you realy must stop saying that a hydraulic set up is no lighter than a cable type, it is, oh yes it is, just so long as you get a non standard Ducati master cylinder, or an 80's Triumph one, (but not so light with that) mine is as light as any Jap 250, and when modified, the cylinder cannot push the front out. This can easilly be done to a stock undamaged cover by the use of a specially made extended hose union, that screws into the casting AS WELL AS the shrunk in cylinder, I have these in stock if anyone wants one, specially made for me, but I recomend that they are fitted by an engineer with machine tools, although a clever home mechanic could do it.That saves an original cover and cannot be seen, but if it is already cracked, it can be repaired with a permanent fix that shows the cylinder on the face of the cover, see pics of my own, the hose can be installed wherever you like, I prefer mine to go straight into the cylinder.
CLEM
Clem, I wrote standard Laverda hydraulic setup. I had one on my 3CL.
A sales gimmick that would leave you stranded with a leaking slave cylinder seal a lot more often than a broken clutch cable would.
Paul
 
Paul, my old mucker, we will argue this one until one of us gets boxed up and buried! I agree the stock set up (hydraulic) is inadequate and no lighter than the stock set up (cable) but the hydraulic one is so easilly upgraded simply by changing the master cylinder that the argument has no meat, and if your fluid runs out through a leak, almost every petrol station in the world has clutch/brake fluid for sale, France is a big exception where very often fuel is dispensed from an unmanned pump in the corner of a supermarlet car park, where only fuel can be delivered. How many petrol stations carry Laverda clutch cables? but the extended arm or Dam conversion works for a lot of people.

The old duffer rode from Greenwich, London to Breganze with a leaking clutch slave, he knew he shouldnt set off but he did, he topped up the master cylinder at every fuel stop and made it to the rally, He (sort of) relied on the fact that Ricardo Oro would put a new seal in for him, which he did, but good job Duff was carrying a spare, because the 1200 Anni has a 35mm slave piston and no shrunk in cylinder, Ricardo did not have the seal (O ring) he only had the normal ones which are 30mm or 31mm, at least with the 35mm piston, the cover cannot crack, but for sure he was not stopped by a broken cable.

When I visited Breganze in 1975 on my (then) two year old SF1, I had a taped cable alongside the original and a spare in the tank bag, all three broke in my 2500 trip and I rode the last 200 or so miles miles without being able to release the clutch, thank goodness for a 1KW Nippon Denso starter on that bike, no doubt improvements of the cable itself have taken place, but for me at least, I would rather top up a leaking hydraulic system, than change a clutch cable (twice) in a period that is called "holiday"
so there Marxy, you have been told and can no longer argue, and don't try me on price, since the cover on TOG was a scrap item obtained for next to nothing, modified by my contacts and has worked well for five years, even the master cylinder first Triumph (£15) the Brembo (£35) were not expensive, there are simply no excuses. I will fit a hydraulic system on your SF2 for free, as long as you then acknowledge that it is better for arthritic hands by a contry mile, OH! and you take me to the Waterside Inn at Bray on Thames for dinner, only about £400/head. been there, done that, would love to go again.
CLEM
 
I had a hydaulic clutch set up fitted to my Jota by Keith Nairn a few years ago...have been very pleased with it. I presume you can buy as a kit, as its a fair way to go otherwise...and to wait!
 
Hi Steve, there was a discussion about this in the German forum some years ago, not sure anyone finally tried it. As I think there are different ones available from Magura (length of the hydraulic line, ratio maybe?!?), would you maybe have the part number that you fitted? Not for me, but for anyone interested. Any modification needed to fit it? Did you combine it with the extended lever or does it work with the standard one?

Hi @Laverdalothar ,
The kit I used was part number 2100309 to suit 2010-16 Kawa Z1000. Here's one:
The hose length was fine for my Jota with Renthal 'flat' one piece bars, I expect it would also be fine for stock jota bars for anyone unfortunate enough to still use those. :) Really high bars might require a longer hose, perhaps there is a suitable alternative kit. Note the lever comes in silver or black, silver looks better on the old clunkers, so be sure any alternative number you get has the silver lever.
I copied the esteemed @CJMAC who trod this path before me with his SF2. He initially fitted it with the DAM extended lever and the operation was TOO LIGHT and was unbalanced with the other controls. A return to the stock release lever makes it perfect.
As mentioned, it comes pre-bled and does not require disassembly of that to fit.
The only slight modification I made was the adapter sleeve shown here:
1707518964508.png
The shiny silver bit is a separate tophat shaped piece to adapt the slave cylinder to various bikes. The hole in the Laverda crankcase is M8x1.0, so the through diameter is ~7mm. The sleeve that came with the kit is 8mm outside diameter, so I turned it down to 7mm. It's a bit iffy because the inside diameter of that sleeve is 6mm from memory, so only 0.5mm wall thickness. In reality, all it does is centralise the slave cylinder and hold it a bit more securely, you could probably do without it altogether. Maybe then the stroke might not quite work, in which case put a few 8mm washers over it to match the thickness of the step in the tophat piece. The best option might be an M8x1.0 bolt drilled to 6mm thru and the head turned down to just a couple of mm thick like the adapter sleeve, but it's really not necessary. The cylinder is stabilised by the internal spring which exerts a slight pressure on the release system.
It's a brilliant bit of kit that just works, is easy to fit, requires no mods to the bike, is mineral oil based so does not absorb water, is away from the front sprocket so does not absorb chain grease and dirt into the hydraulics.
The kit is perhaps a bit pricey, but it's probably competitive or cheaper than the alternatives and retains the look of the original cover.
Can you tell I like it? :LOL:

Cheers
SteveB

(Post edited to correct diameters above)
 
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I'm confused - trying to work out in my head where it fits, Steve. Is it a replacement for the Laverda hydro clutch or an adapted system to operate the clutch cable-operated lever? The hole in the Lav case for the clutch cable is actually M8x1.0. The M10x1.0 is adding to the confusion.

As for an extended lever being 'too light' ...??? :oops:
 
My modern Husky had exactly that Q, it's just a handlebar clutch master and case-mounted slave. You can run mineral oil or the more expensive Magura Blood, their specific and expensive dyed red mineral oil. The plus for Hydro is no matter how hard you abuse it the hand action friction point doesn't change. Important on Dirtbikes where it's slipped a lot.
 
Yes, this is literally a "hydraulic cable". The nipple at above the red circle in the pic above just goes exactly where the original cable nipple goes. Slave cylinder fits where the original adjuster goes, and just bears against the crankcase. It's f'ing brilliant. A picture is worth a thousand words, will report back.

8mm vs 10mm, I will also confirm. Sorry, I may have been providing wrong info from memory.
 
OK, caught talking through my arse again. Indeed the dimension was 8x1.0, so just subtract 2mm from everything I said above. I will edit it for clarity.
Here is how the slave cylinder sits (this is my 'patina princess', carefully rebuilt with all the battle scars in place, so just get over the fact it's not shiny...) :LOL:
1707549768506.png

Furthermore, I was also espousing bovine excrement about the lever colour... which is black on the part number I bought and quoted above. Perusal of the Magura site will likely turn up an equivalent version with the silver lever perhaps. As you can see the lever also has a nicely hidden reach-adjuster, which is another bonus I'd forgotten. If I ever get around to it, I have a vapour blaster which will turn it silver.
1707550037183.png
 
Magura hymec is another excellent option. I put one on the Jota and it's brilliant. Don't need to remove the sprocket cover, even comes pre-bled, just fit and enjoy a nice light and friction-free clutch. Both master and slave cylinders are very small and hardly noticeable.

View attachment 88044
I have a Yamaha TT500 drum brake hub ready for fitment to a Lav swing arm, with a very similar slave cylinder but with a pedal m/c.

Works a treat for the reverse direction brake arm actuation. Looks cool too!
 
I have a Yamaha TT500 drum brake hub ready for fitment to a Lav swing arm, with a very similar slave cylinder but with a pedal m/c.

Works a treat for the reverse direction brake arm actuation. Looks cool too!
Did you also change the direction of the shoes? Two trailing shoe won't work much. Peter Campbell did this on my Chris Cutler race bike, rear brake from a cl360 or some such, reversed. Works well.
 
OK, caught talking through my arse again. Indeed the dimension was 8x1.0, so just subtract 2mm from everything I said above. I will edit it for clarity.
Here is how the slave cylinder sits (this is my 'patina princess', carefully rebuilt with all the battle scars in place, so just get over the fact it's not shiny...) :LOL:
View attachment 88060

Furthermore, I was also espousing bovine excrement about the lever colour... which is black on the part number I bought and quoted above. Perusal of the Magura site will likely turn up an equivalent version with the silver lever perhaps. As you can see the lever also has a nicely hidden reach-adjuster, which is another bonus I'd forgotten. If I ever get around to it, I have a vapour blaster which will turn it silver.
View attachment 88061
Very nice Steve! It's actually a lot less obtrusive than my OCD would allow.

Been comtemplating this myself but currently don't have a project I would want to fit it to... maybe the 750 flat tracker that's running around in the back of my brain. ;)

How is the lever/switchblock clearance when deployed?

piet
 
Err, hydro actualed TT 500 rear DRUM. I tried fitting a twin leader front drum off a Honda MX bike to my XT 500 Yamaha, it was a hell of a lot of mucking about to get that working. I am more confused than usual with the 2 above posts. Hydro drum brakes, is that such a thing? My claim to fame for brakes was having 3 separate levers on my 05 Husky left handlebar. Std clutch lever override for its Recluse Centrivical Clutch, the std valve lifter and a left-hand rear brake lever that also connected to the std rear foot brake. Recluse users would know if you crashed on a big hill, my specialty those Recluses eliminated all engine connections and engine braking unless the engine was in gear and running, pick the bike up with no active rear brake had the bike freewheel away. Those 3 levers got some odd looks.
 
Did you also change the direction of the shoes? Two trailing shoe won't work much. Peter Campbell did this on my Chris Cutler race bike, rear brake from a cl360 or some such, reversed. Works well.
I, I, I …. Remember sourcing a larger spigot and linishing it down to …. to actuate the leading shoe first …. I think 🤔

I’d have to dig it out and have a look to confirm. And as I’m in WA, that isn’t happening soon!
 
Err, hydro actualed TT 500 rear DRUM. I tried fitting a twin leader front drum off a Honda MX bike to my XT 500 Yamaha, it was a hell of a lot of mucking about to get that working. I am more confused than usual with the 2 above posts. Hydro drum brakes, is that such a thing? My claim to fame for brakes was having 3 separate levers on my 05 Husky left handlebar. Std clutch lever override for its Recluse Centrivical Clutch, the std valve lifter and a left-hand rear brake lever that also connected to the std rear foot brake. Recluse users would know if you crashed on a big hill, my specialty those Recluses eliminated all engine connections and engine braking unless the engine was in gear and running, pick the bike up with no active rear brake had the bike freewheel away. Those 3 levers got some odd looks.

Why not Vince? I actually mulled it over after seeing Battos monster twin, with the cable backtracking to achieve the same actuation. I even used the original perch, for the slave cylinder.
 
OK, caught talking through my arse again. Indeed the dimension was 8x1.0, so just subtract 2mm from everything I said above. I will edit it for clarity.
Here is how the slave cylinder sits (this is my 'patina princess', carefully rebuilt with all the battle scars in place, so just get over the fact it's not shiny...) :LOL:
View attachment 88060

Furthermore, I was also espousing bovine excrement about the lever colour... which is black on the part number I bought and quoted above. Perusal of the Magura site will likely turn up an equivalent version with the silver lever perhaps. As you can see the lever also has a nicely hidden reach-adjuster, which is another bonus I'd forgotten. If I ever get around to it, I have a vapour blaster which will turn it silver.
View attachment 88061
Just stick the lever a couple of minutes, literally in caustic soda and it'll come out nice and shiny.
Paul
 
The Magura system is listed as either black or silver on the website I get. Not available in Norway anyway from the accessory joints (out of stock, none planned) so it would be the big import tax bonus for the collectors. Whether the correct (Kawa one) is available is also questionable so could need modifying a relatively expensive purchase, but any (esp Ducati) stuff off the web probably works out just as much. It is a great system, so bloody simple.
Of course moto drum brakes could be modified for hydraulic, it is just something to connect between two levers, it only needs a mounting system and something like this would work fine with the correct hydraulic ratio.
 
I’d suggest the only thing ‘comical’ about the Beezumph conical front drum, is the effort the ignorant put into covering up their inability to set up said brake properly.
Not as good as the previous twin leading drum of the Triumph/BSA group but not as bad as the reputation it’s been tarred with. IMO.
 
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