750 Zane starter ratios and stuff

Well, I’ve got the starter gear set from 3c fitted, all sealed up, filled with oil, decided to drain old fuel via the non return valve breather connection, I did this by drilling it out to 4.5mm and inserting a nylon pipe down into the bottom of tank and siphoning it out which took a while but successful, 5 litres of best quality juice added.
Now all I have to do is fit the battery, and low and behold it’s gave up before even fitting it, the Odessy has been on a trickle for a while right enough, however, any advice experience on a replacement. Consider that I have increased the cables in diameter any space is limited!
So people, what’s your recommendations on a new battery with huge cca, minimum size and won’t blow itself or the bike up?
And btw, Piet, I have photos as suggested which I shall post when I’ve proved the work.
 
At the end of the day you need maximum CCA , problem is lack of space in terms of battery width that will fit.

Have a look at WESTCO 51913, ODYSSEY PC680, you could checkout a Lithium type batteries (LiPe04) if your voltage/rec will charge the battery correctly.
 
arancia said:
What is the change in starter to crank ratio and which gears are changed?
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the two gears that connect the starter with the starter clutch are changed. not sure exactly what the ratio change is, but the big gear gets bigger, that's why the housing and the cover need some work.

Regarding the LiFePo: mine did not like to much charging. A decent regulator/rectifyer is needed to make sure the accu gets the right voltage...
 
The only case modification I had to make was to the turret which the smaller gear covers when mounted on the pin. This because the aperture which the centre gear of the smaller gear comprises, covers the mounting turret which the locating pin is held!
It’s this turret which I have machined down to accept the new smaller gear...... confused yet? I am, and I did it!
Anyway, I’ll attach a couple of photos to help, hopefully.
 

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Now, the only real reason I did it on the mill was because I have access to one at work, you can do it I think using a hole saw, and a pillar drill, centralise the case to the drill by using the 10mm pin in the Chuck and locating the case turret pin in the Chuck to the turret hole and securing the case to the bed in this location. Change the pin in the chuck for a hole saw which will leave the desired diameter of turret to accept the new gear, in this case it is the residual internal dimension of the hole saw, I think you will be looking for about 17mm turret dia, but check with the gear you have.
All the work is being done by the pin which is located in the turret, so leave as much meat on the turret as you can whilst allowing plenty free area between internal of the gear and turret/pin for oil to get into it. REMBER, and remove the centre drill from the hole saw, or you may well drill right through your case!
 
I’m now waiting on my new battery to see if it is all worthwhile, and BTW, this is only my experience, don’t come and burn my house down if it all goes wrong for you, I’m not being held liable for disasters!!
 
Also!!! The Jesus nut on the end of the crank holding the alternator rotor and sprag clutch on is a bitch, don’t faff about, use a 28mm impact socket and nut gun if you can, and it’s a left hand thread. Because the rear wheel is off I can’t lock up the gearbox and engine with rear brake, so I used an oil filter strap wrench on the rotor, which worked a treat.
 

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As Andy has said a PC 680 will fit in a Formula 750 Battery opening - it’s a tight fit and the Allen bolts on the terminals must bit changed to bolts or you will not be able to do them up - the Odyssey has good reserves and the Zane has a weak starter gear - I assume the brushes are ok
 
OK, I can do the math!
Going from (13:50 and 19:86 which gives us 0.057) to (13:49 and 20:106 which gives us 0.073) then there's about 27% increase in the number of starter gear turns for a turn of the crank.
I was not expecting such a big change and can imagine that significantly relieves the strain on the starter.
Looks like the tooth size had to reduce between the new gears to get that many more teeth on the sprag clutch gear?
I look forward to hearing how the starter gearing change, brushes done, new cables and new battery etc. result in improved starting - I have a 750 Strike that's a reluctant starter even with the cables done and using a booster battery - perhaps the brushes and gearing are next on its to do list.
May we enquire what 3C asks for the pair of gears?
 
Well Arancia, the cost is not insignificant, £250 ish inc delivery. This was further increased when delivered to me in Scotland as I had to pay import duty of a further £60 to the courier!..... ouch.
 
Sir Sydney, I have upgraded the cables, changed the brushes to a four brush set up can’t think of anything I’ve missed there.
The battery I had was a PC 680, even it was struggling with starting the beast, I shall just get another one I think, then we shall see what is what with the starting!!
 
The electric circuit depends on there being continuity between the starter, engine and then frame.
If not high resistance will be in place causing bad flow of electrons!
Therefore check resistance levels between starter,engine and frame.

Andy
 
Andy, I’ve upgraded the cables to carry more current, including a new direct cable connection from battery to starter motor. As well as converting the starter to a four brush armature set up. Although there was a marginal improvement, it was still struggling more than I was comfortable with, so now it’s the last resort almost, major surgery with the starter gears.
 
Kennyrnut said:
Andy, I’ve upgraded the cables to carry more current, including a new direct cable connection from battery to starter motor. As well as converting the starter to a four brush armature set up. Although there was a marginal improvement, it was still struggling more than I was comfortable with, so now it’s the last resort almost, major surgery with the starter gears.
Click to expand...
If it works out like on my Formula, you will be very pleased with it
 
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