A plumbing question - no Laverda content

Dellortoman

Dellortoman

Hero member
Location
Tasmania, Australia
This is totally un-related to anything Laverda. I'm sure there are some experienced plumbers here, so rather than increase my digital footprint in cyberspace by joining a plumbing forum, I thought I may as well ask you guys.

Has anyone come across a burst braided hose in domestic plumbing. It's a typical hose that goes from a stop cock to a plumbing appliance. In this case a toilet cistern. I was sitting at my computer when I heard a "POP!" then the sound of flowing water. It was obviously coming from the toilet cistern and when I lifted the lid, I found a fountain of water, and this - photos below.

I thought these things were supposed to be rated to well above normal domestic water pressure. My water pressure is pretty good but nothing out of the ordinary, otherwise the mains pressure water heater would have a hard time.

The hose came with a new toilet kit that I installed about 3 years ago. There's another spot on the same hose with rusted and broken strands in the "stainless" braid, and a bulge in the inner rubber tube that probably would have burst eventually if the other spot hadn't gone first. It wasn't kinked or otherwise weakened at either failure site.

The blurb that came with the replacement hose says "This hose must be inspected every 6 months and replaced at the end of the warranty period stated" but there's no stated warranty period. All it says is that the warranty complies with Australian and NZ laws, and "we guarantee this product is fit for purpose".

I have other hoses like this all over the place in the kitchen and bathroom. They've been there for more than 10 years and none of them is showing any signs of deterioration. I'm wondering if the hose supplied with the toilet kit was some cheapo piece of non-rated rubbish just to make up a complete kit.

I have questions: How long do these things normally last? Does anyone really do a 6-monthly inspection and replace them after a pre-determined time?


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Happens more than you think Cam…….. your lucky it was contained in the cistern, and not under a vanity! Braided Rubber hoses are still circulating but are on the way out! All new compliant hoses have a Pex ( Poly Ethylene x ) core now.
Manufacturers think if they stick a warning tag that says they must be inspected every six mnths and replaced every 2 yrs, that it covers their ass! It’s no different to Councils placing a sign on a roads verge telling us to beware of pot holes…… Tis enough to shift any possible claims made against them back onto you!! 😤😤
Buyer beware……..
 
I have seen some of these cheap shit hoses leak, the inner pipe is absolute shit quality that expands like and inner tube if used without the braiding outside it. Best not to use those if sitting with pressure all the time, better to use known brands there but how can you really tell.
 
APPLIES TO THE UK These flex hoses are not used a lot by professionals, but when they are, they dont usually give trouble for decades, in the DIY instalation market they are much more common because DIY'ers usually do not have pipe benders or cannot use them, ridgid copper connections are the norm, having said that, a lot of modern taps (focets) have very small bore connections and come with braided hoses, again this doesnt usually create a problem.

I would hazard a guess that your hose was crushed by something with a sharpish edge, long before you took possesion of it, and it was only a matter of time before it failed, you probably have already, but take it out and go the the plumbing shop and buy a replacement, and fit it, you can sleep easy after that.
CLEM
( an industrial, tubular fluid and gaseous handling technicion for more than 50 years, with experience of anything to do with pipes from 1/16th" to 20" in any material)

question what is the difference between a plumber and a pipefitter? (answer) the pipefitter earns about 40% more and can easilly do plumbing but the plumber cannot do pipefitting
 
I'm not a plumber, but I've spent a lot of time working on the tools with tradies, including painters, carpenters, riggers, electricians, and plumbers, and I learned a lot from them. Being the supervising engineer on building construction sites over quite a few years, I made it my business to get out of the office and work on site with the tradies as much as I could. It raised a few eyebrows among some of my engineering colleagues who thought that putting on overalls on and getting my hands dirty alongside the guys on site was a bit of an unusual management style. But I wanted to understand the work from their perspective. I think I gained a few brownie points from the workers by spending time with them and learning some practical knowledge of their trades. At least I got to understand what's do-able and what isn't. That's pretty useful knowledge when you're designing something.

I have plumbing tools including pipe benders and always used solid copper with silver soldered fittings until these flex hoses became the norm. They're easier to install so when I re-did my kitchen and toilet I used them. I did the bathroom vanity many years ago and used copper for that. That job has never leaked.

A new bathtub and shower are on the to-do list for some day. That'll all be solid copper.
 
I've had this type of hose fail on an under-sink hot water appliance, Cam. Pretty disgusted when it happened, the heater was just out of its 2-year warranty. New replacement hose has held up far better, now about 5 years in use and no issues, seems to be much better quality than what came with the heater.

piet
 
There has been a growing trend in Canada to retrofit replace “poly-b” plumbing for the much more temperature capable “pex” tubing. Mostly as a highly desirable selling feature on a real estate sale.
. Poly-b in areas like Arizona, and jurisdictions where plumbing is run in the upstairs and attic, instead of more temperature stable as concrete crawlspace build, poly-b failure rate was alarmingly high. It only seems to show failure rate in Canada in inland desert of B.C., and in the upstairs of 2 floor+ houses. Poly-b was banned from use in Canada in 2005, and “Pex” has been a worthy replacement. Braided steel water lines do not have a bad reputation here in Canada.
 
Dellortoman said:
I'm not a plumber, but I've spent a lot of time working on the tools with tradies, including painters, carpenters, riggers, electricians, and plumbers, and I learned a lot from them. Being the supervising engineer on building construction sites over quite a few years, I made it my business to get out of the office and work on site with the tradies as much as I could. It raised a few eyebrows among some of my engineering colleagues who thought that putting on overalls on and getting my hands dirty alongside the guys on site was a bit of an unusual management style. But I wanted to understand the work from their perspective. I think I gained a few brownie points from the workers by spending time with them and learning some practical knowledge of their trades. At least I got to understand what's do-able and what isn't. That's pretty useful knowledge when you're designing something.

I have plumbing tools including pipe benders and always used solid copper with silver soldered fittings until these flex hoses became the norm. They're easier to install so when I re-did my kitchen and toilet I used them. I did the bathroom vanity many years ago and used copper for that. That job has never leaked.

A new bathtub and shower are on the to-do list for some day. That'll all be solid copper.
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When I was a young machinery salesman, we had a team of fitters, electricians and service guys that worked out the back.

Every morning I would arrive at work, go into the workshop and have a cup of coffee and a chat with the guys, check out what they were working on and amongst the banter I picked up lots of inside knowledge of our machines, then head into the office to put up with the Crazy Castle (office) goings on.

My fellow salesmen couldn’t work out how I knew so much technical details of our machines and how I managed to have the tech guys drop everything they were doing to work on issues that machines I sold had produced

What goes around, comes around.
 
Well known issue Cam, insurance companies well known cause of flooding, know one lady home was completely flooded, as she was away for several weeks, just bought the house in fact. Lads have more pertinent information. Usually chose wholesale plumber supplies ( Swann in Oz ) for critical plumbing items. Bunnings as last resort, though have had decent items from that source also, Cistern fill and drain plastic components with approved water mark stamping and local manufacturer and or supplier packaging.

On the bargain table at bunnings, annealed chrome copper link pipe and roses for cistern to wall connection, no bursting issues there, though too much trouble over quick fit flexible, until the day as you have had there. Bought all the kits on the table, $5 each...bargain! j
 
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I bought the replacement hose from Bunnings. No idea if it's any better than the one that failed. Probably not.
I'm now wondering if I should make up new pipes from annealed copper tube to replace the other flexible hoses in the house. I might not be home the next time one goes.
 
With today’s international trading it’s hard to tell what quality consumers are getting, but I second the use of Pex for plumbing after using it to replumb my house. But you should be able to find a quality braided hose at a local plumbing supplier.
 
Dellortoman said:
I bought the replacement hose from Bunnings. No idea if it's any better than the one that failed. Probably not.
I'm now wondering if I should make up new pipes from annealed copper tube to replace the other flexible hoses in the house. I might not be home the next time one goes.
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As I’m away from home a lot, you’ve now got me wondering if I should replace my ones too. I don’t know what they are made of, can only see braid.

Had a busted copper pipe under a concrete slab, I found out about it when I got a $6,000 water bill, then started looking around.

They came to the party and reduced it to $3,500, because it was an ‘non visible leak’ or something like that.

Fuck me, the discount almost paid for the repair bill.
 
Vince said:
This is completely anecdotal but I had to repair the damage after a Pex line in a ceiling got nibbled by a rat. so nothing is foolproof.
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Yes the Rodents do like the sweet taste of Rehau…….Alas they would have no chompers left trying to naw thru stainless braided hoses 🤣
 
I think I'll stick with copper in future. I've re-plumbed 90% of the house in copper. Either hard drawn or annealed. The feed from the water main in the street is still the original galvanised steel pipe. There's plenty of pressure and flow through it, so as long as it doesn't spring a leak, I have no reason to dig it up and replace it.
 
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