Another ignition question.......be calm!
- Thread starter RCGBOB44
- Start date
To put things straight, the DMC II system for MkII and 120? triples does NOT use the original pick-ups. All ignition-related wiring is replaced upon installation, bar the ignition switch.
The opto trigger can fuck up, but it is cheap, small, light and fits in the smallest tool roll. It can be replaced at roadside if need be. Had one trigger go out on me in over 120000km on 2 bikes, not too bad on reliability in my book. In all, I have ridden well over 200000km with DMC systems with only the one failure. Many Sachse units still have to prove themselves...
And as for the 100 quid saving, the overall build quality and the extra capabilities of the DMC more than make up for that imho.
piet
The opto trigger can fuck up, but it is cheap, small, light and fits in the smallest tool roll. It can be replaced at roadside if need be. Had one trigger go out on me in over 120000km on 2 bikes, not too bad on reliability in my book. In all, I have ridden well over 200000km with DMC systems with only the one failure. Many Sachse units still have to prove themselves...
And as for the 100 quid saving, the overall build quality and the extra capabilities of the DMC more than make up for that imho.
piet
sfcpiet said:
I'll throw my 2 cents in here
Sachse units DO NOT use Optical triggers anymore due to temperature related failures, John Wilson from IIS fame also went away from Optical triggers due to the same reason. Sachse units on Laverda's run with a Hall Effect trigger set up, 3 triggers on the 120's, 2 triggers on the 180's. Only the DMC persists with Optical triggers except on the Series 1 bikes and the DMC uses the original 35 year old Bosch pick ups.
As far as set up goes, the Sachse and IIS units are a piece of piss, the DMC is a pain in the butt to set up
I fail to see what the build quality point relates to, the Sachse is nearly identical to the IIS in construction and there are many people including myself who are running IIS systems and have been for many years with no issues at all. I believe this is a reference to maybe the wiring connections possibly, I don't see any issues there. I know for sure the actual trigger assembly is way better then the DMC.
and what are the extra capabilities of the DMC over the Sachse ???, both have a selection of curves and both have a test circuit, what else does the DMC do that the Sachse doesn't. ?
And as for the Sachse systems proving themselves, Volker has well over 1,000 systems running worldwide by now on many different forms of motorcycles, yes, there have been issues with faulty control boxes but no more or less then the DMC units, I have at least 6 faulty DMC units in my workshop right now, bronze box and blue box.
Main difference that I see is that Piet has a long association with Witt so prefers those systems, I have a long association with initially IIS and now Sachse so have a preference for the Sachse units, in reality, both offer a huge gain in engine performance so does not really matter which one you buy, both will work great on the 500, Series 2 180 and 120 engines.
For the Series 1 180 engines I prefer the Redax/Sachse system of course, probably because I have around 150 off them left in stock.
Red
G
Grant
Guest
Red, is it possible to convert from opto to Hall-effect on my Sachse system?
Does it need a big revamp or is it a simple plug and play?
Does it need a big revamp or is it a simple plug and play?
Red,
I did not imply that the Sachse system uses optical triggers. It is well known to me that Volker changed to Hall-effect sensors quite a while back due to temperature related problems with his units.
Temperature related failure of DMC triggers is a rare occurance, at least over here in "sunny" Europe. Higher ambient temperatures all year round might make a difference, you tell me please.
DMC systems have been around a lot longer than Sachse, the original Bosch pick-ups were still in good shape and in plentiful supply when the DMC I system was launched in the early 80's. (The war in former Yugoslavia stopped all future supplies as the pick-ups, along with a range of other Bosch products, were produced there.) The DMC II evolved in the 90's to eliminate the then aging Bosch items.
I fail to see the need of a 39 or 40? degree advance curve for a Laverda triple, perhaps for Clems' 5.8:1 CR 1200, but for real life? Hardly, so that's 3 curves already wasted. Personally, I'm not sure Volker has a full understanding of the workings of a Laverda triple. Of course the majority of curves available on both systems is never used, but the more practical curves and fine-tuning capabilities of the DMC has helped me iron out quite a few persistant bugs on tuned engines.
Yes, any half-decent ignition system is a major improvement over the crude stock system, and yes, your clever alternator conversion definitely makes it more desirable than the DMC for MkI triple applications.
Re set-up; It may be a piece of piss with the Sachse, but most owners still don't get it right. Have had at least 3 bikes in the shop that showed up OK with the LED, but the strobe told a different story. It then turns to a pain in the butt to correct it, especially the MKI!
As for production numbers, Sachse has a long way to go. Ther's still a helluva lot of Ducatis and Guzzis, twins and singles, running the DMC, as well as the odd Beemer, H-D, Benelli, Yamaha or Honda.
BTW, nice to see you back, even if it is only to give me a decent spanking! 8)
piet
I did not imply that the Sachse system uses optical triggers. It is well known to me that Volker changed to Hall-effect sensors quite a while back due to temperature related problems with his units.
Temperature related failure of DMC triggers is a rare occurance, at least over here in "sunny" Europe. Higher ambient temperatures all year round might make a difference, you tell me please.
DMC systems have been around a lot longer than Sachse, the original Bosch pick-ups were still in good shape and in plentiful supply when the DMC I system was launched in the early 80's. (The war in former Yugoslavia stopped all future supplies as the pick-ups, along with a range of other Bosch products, were produced there.) The DMC II evolved in the 90's to eliminate the then aging Bosch items.
I fail to see the need of a 39 or 40? degree advance curve for a Laverda triple, perhaps for Clems' 5.8:1 CR 1200, but for real life? Hardly, so that's 3 curves already wasted. Personally, I'm not sure Volker has a full understanding of the workings of a Laverda triple. Of course the majority of curves available on both systems is never used, but the more practical curves and fine-tuning capabilities of the DMC has helped me iron out quite a few persistant bugs on tuned engines.
Yes, any half-decent ignition system is a major improvement over the crude stock system, and yes, your clever alternator conversion definitely makes it more desirable than the DMC for MkI triple applications.
Re set-up; It may be a piece of piss with the Sachse, but most owners still don't get it right. Have had at least 3 bikes in the shop that showed up OK with the LED, but the strobe told a different story. It then turns to a pain in the butt to correct it, especially the MKI!
As for production numbers, Sachse has a long way to go. Ther's still a helluva lot of Ducatis and Guzzis, twins and singles, running the DMC, as well as the odd Beemer, H-D, Benelli, Yamaha or Honda.
BTW, nice to see you back, even if it is only to give me a decent spanking! 8)
piet
Piet,
Scott made the statement that Sachse uses Optical triggers back at the start of the thread, was correcting that statement.
Volker uses a one box fits all approach in regards to advance curves, I only use curves 3 and 4 on Laverda's
with the IIS systems generally use curves 2 and 3 out of the 9 available so same applies to the IIS
how many relevant curves are there on a DMC, I have only found 2 or 3 that work
Bored with machining big bore kits and waiting for Chris to drop some more of his crap off so thought I'd call in and see how my mate Ron is going
Scott made the statement that Sachse uses Optical triggers back at the start of the thread, was correcting that statement.
Volker uses a one box fits all approach in regards to advance curves, I only use curves 3 and 4 on Laverda's
with the IIS systems generally use curves 2 and 3 out of the 9 available so same applies to the IIS
how many relevant curves are there on a DMC, I have only found 2 or 3 that work
Bored with machining big bore kits and waiting for Chris to drop some more of his crap off so thought I'd call in and see how my mate Ron is going
DoC!
Hero member
Paul,
I honestly think that somewhere in this thread something was lost in translation on you to have made the above derogatory comment. You surprise me.
Imho the Sasche tackle does the job on two of my Laverdas extremely well and will shortly be fitted into the third. Just because it is 100 quid cheaper doesn't mean it is inferior. It is well priced. In fact I think it is superior to the DMC in my view, purely because it has 3 triggers, not 1, so there is a 'get you home' safety factor built in there. Let's face it, if your single DMC trigger goes tits up in horizontal rain say in remote Scotland, the only option most people would take would be to go and drown their sorrows in the nearest pub. If there is one.
DoC!
R
Reggie3cl
Guest
Sounds like a plan!
RCGBOB44
Hero member
- Location
- Coulsdon,Surrey, sometimes Germany
This has turned out to be a most interesting thread.
I have some questions.
Where do I get a Sachse system from?
How much for a series two 180 Jota?
Are they easy to fit and can I do it?
Is there a ride in ride out service to get it fitted.
I live in Coulsdon in Surrey if thats any help.
Ta chaps.
I have some questions.
Where do I get a Sachse system from?
How much for a series two 180 Jota?
Are they easy to fit and can I do it?
Is there a ride in ride out service to get it fitted.
I live in Coulsdon in Surrey if thats any help.
Ta chaps.
Kiwi Laverda
Hero member
- Location
- The wobbly bit of New Zealand
Yogi
Hero member
- Location
- Bellingen NSW Australia
RCGBOB44 said:
I'd say speak to Keith Nairn at Laversa Scozia.
By Email: keithnairn@laverdascozia.co.uk
By Phone: 07766694567
You may be in Surrey and he may be a bit further North, but Keith is your man for the UK and can at least go through it all with you. Reckon there will be someone on here local to you who can lend you a hand if you ask nicely and provide the sarnies and liquid sustanence. I just bought one for my Series II and will be having it fitted shortly.
Yogi
Shajota
Hero member
- Location
- Whitsundays Qld
Well I fitted one to my Series 2 and I know nothin. Basically just follow the instructions..........I got mine off Red and he provided detailed notes (knew he was dealing with a non mechanic 
) - Sasche website has detailed fitting instructions (with piccies)
) - Sasche website has detailed fitting instructions (with piccies)
DoC!
Hero member
And here they are:
http://www.elektronik-sachse.de/ZDG3/LAVERDA/1000_180_II/en/instruction1_lav180_II_en.htm
Very easy to fit. A piece of p*ss. I think I needed about 3 pieces of 1m length of 1mm thickness cable to replace all the gubbins I took out of the Jota 120. Replacement grounds should be 1.5mm or above though. If you want the correct colour cable to match existing wiring it is readily available off eBay.
You will need a simple electrical crimping tool if you want to do the job properly. Plus some waterproof connectors if you wish, again from eBay. Don't forget to Loctite in the little grub screws as then can work loose.
Also get a price from Keith Nairn before you go buying from Germany.
It took about 3 to 4 hours (I took my time and had plenty of cuppas) and I rode my bike into my garage, did it myself and rode out again..
Cheers
DoC!
http://www.elektronik-sachse.de/ZDG3/LAVERDA/1000_180_II/en/instruction1_lav180_II_en.htm
Very easy to fit. A piece of p*ss. I think I needed about 3 pieces of 1m length of 1mm thickness cable to replace all the gubbins I took out of the Jota 120. Replacement grounds should be 1.5mm or above though. If you want the correct colour cable to match existing wiring it is readily available off eBay.
You will need a simple electrical crimping tool if you want to do the job properly. Plus some waterproof connectors if you wish, again from eBay. Don't forget to Loctite in the little grub screws as then can work loose.
Also get a price from Keith Nairn before you go buying from Germany.
It took about 3 to 4 hours (I took my time and had plenty of cuppas) and I rode my bike into my garage, did it myself and rode out again..
Cheers
DoC!
Laverdalothar
Hero member
- Location
- Germany
DoC! said:
20 years of DMC1 and 12 years of DMC2 (some of which in massive rain in Austria, snow and ice in Switzerland and 40* C and more in Italy without any ignition related issue make me very confident I will not get lost to soon with my bikes caused by the DMC itself... 8)
RCGBOB44
Hero member
- Location
- Coulsdon,Surrey, sometimes Germany
Thanks for the help guy's, really appreciated.
Long time DMC user that just removed a DMC, to use on a keeper, and replaced it with a Sachse...hindsight says I should have left the DMC and put the Sachse on the keeper...seat of the pants says the Sachse performance is better, smoother...however I had a dead sensor board out of the box... 
Will have to wait a few years to see the longer term benefits
Will have to wait a few years to see the longer term benefits