D
Davo
Guest
I thought the whole idea of the m-unit was to simplify the wiring 
G
Grant
Guest
Not in my experience with it.
Can be, but if you want full functionality several more relays are required. I ended up with 5 relays plus the m-Unit.
Can be, but if you want full functionality several more relays are required. I ended up with 5 relays plus the m-Unit.
Laverdalothar
Hero member
- Location
- Germany
How many would you have installed without the M-Unit, Grant? 3-4 more I can see, but 5? Mmmhh... The M-Unit replaces already all relays for turn signals, low and high beam, horn and break light. you would need another one for the starter (it has one but that's not capable of the load the starter produces... you could use it however for other things with less load and feed the starter relay directly from the starter button), maybe for the ignition box (you could use AUX connection for that). Sidestand-Relais is not necessary if you have a Ignitec ignition box, as that one has an input for sidestand (as well as an output for the fuel-pump, if installed). Looking at the fact that the factory wiring does only have one relais, I think the M-Unit can do a lot to simplify the cabeling, especially if you use all functions. If you use it "just" as a replacement for the fuse box, it does not make things easier though.
here is an example:
and the according wiring of the side-stand:
up to here, 2 relays are necessary (sidestand and starter). Add another one for ignition and for coil feed if you want to take away the load from the ignition key. What is the 4th and 5th one for, please?
As I think you did for sure right, Grant, I must be forgetting something here. Can you help, please? I will be using a M-unit on my Motoplast, so any thought prior to doing the cabling can only help...
thanks in advance
here is an example:
and the according wiring of the side-stand:
up to here, 2 relays are necessary (sidestand and starter). Add another one for ignition and for coil feed if you want to take away the load from the ignition key. What is the 4th and 5th one for, please?
As I think you did for sure right, Grant, I must be forgetting something here. Can you help, please? I will be using a M-unit on my Motoplast, so any thought prior to doing the cabling can only help...
thanks in advance
Dellortoman
Hero member
- Location
- Tasmania, Australia
Obviously you never switch the headlight off Lothar. If you want to, that adds 2 relays (high and low beam). If you have any other functions that the M-Unit doesn't do (such as headlight flash for passing) you'll need additional switches or relays.
G
Grant
Guest
And you end up with 5 more relays.
If you want permanent lights on, no pilot light in the headlamp etc then the wiring can be drastically simplified.
Best as a ground up rewire to maximise the simplified wiring benefits of the m-Unit where you do away with certain standard switch functions.
Simply adding an m-Unit to an existing loom and switchgear will give the issues as above.
If you want permanent lights on, no pilot light in the headlamp etc then the wiring can be drastically simplified.
Best as a ground up rewire to maximise the simplified wiring benefits of the m-Unit where you do away with certain standard switch functions.
Simply adding an m-Unit to an existing loom and switchgear will give the issues as above.
Laverdalothar
Hero member
- Location
- Germany
mmhh - maybe it is good to do something completely new to us men: reading a manual...
Light control
In order to save the vehicles battery power the head light is always switched off after key lock is
switched on. The head light will be activated automatically after pressing the start button or (for kick
start) after one short light switch operation.
If a push buttons is used for high/low beam control, a short push will toggle between high and low
beam. Hold the button for 2s will switch off light completely. Press the button again will switch low
beam on again. If a switch is used for light control it is only possible to toggle between high and low
beam once the light is activated.
The m-units light circuits are suitable for standard H4 55/60W Halogen bulbs. The output
connections for the lights (Light Hi Out/ Light Low Out) can withstand switched power of up to
120W. It is not possible to connect bulbs with higher power output. The headlamp flasher feature is
activated by a short tap to the push-button. The parking light feature is activated by pressing the
lights push-button and the high beam toggle switch simultaneously while deactivating the main
(ignition) switch.
The M-Unit is designed for push button technology. if you use the original switch units, it might be necessary to install another button. Maybe you could use the headlight flasher position of the high/low beam switch to activate all above mentioned headlight-functions, I am not sure.
on the motogadget wepage is another quite easy wiring diagram. it shows that not even for side-stand you would need a relay, which reduces the whole need for relays to - one...:
http://motogadget.com/media/downloads/plan/fahrzeugschaltplan_en.pdf
if you use the m-button, it is even more reduced...:
http://motogadget.com/media/downloads/plan/fahrzeugschaltplan_mbutton_en.pdf
Light control
In order to save the vehicles battery power the head light is always switched off after key lock is
switched on. The head light will be activated automatically after pressing the start button or (for kick
start) after one short light switch operation.
If a push buttons is used for high/low beam control, a short push will toggle between high and low
beam. Hold the button for 2s will switch off light completely. Press the button again will switch low
beam on again. If a switch is used for light control it is only possible to toggle between high and low
beam once the light is activated.
The m-units light circuits are suitable for standard H4 55/60W Halogen bulbs. The output
connections for the lights (Light Hi Out/ Light Low Out) can withstand switched power of up to
120W. It is not possible to connect bulbs with higher power output. The headlamp flasher feature is
activated by a short tap to the push-button. The parking light feature is activated by pressing the
lights push-button and the high beam toggle switch simultaneously while deactivating the main
(ignition) switch.
The M-Unit is designed for push button technology. if you use the original switch units, it might be necessary to install another button. Maybe you could use the headlight flasher position of the high/low beam switch to activate all above mentioned headlight-functions, I am not sure.
on the motogadget wepage is another quite easy wiring diagram. it shows that not even for side-stand you would need a relay, which reduces the whole need for relays to - one...:
http://motogadget.com/media/downloads/plan/fahrzeugschaltplan_en.pdf
if you use the m-button, it is even more reduced...:
http://motogadget.com/media/downloads/plan/fahrzeugschaltplan_mbutton_en.pdf
G
Grant
Guest
Well, I didn't want to fuck about pressing buttons like a stupid bastard.
I wanted to use standard (Suzuki) switchgear.
I wanted to use standard (Suzuki) switchgear.
Laverdalothar
Hero member
- Location
- Germany
Ok - then maybe we can sum it up like this:
With the original (or any other similar) switches, you will need (up to) 5 additional relays (while sidestand relay is obviously not 100% necessary, as is ignition relay, which would reduce it even with standard switches to 3 I would say) and the use of the M-Unit is limited to a kind of central fuse box with an alarm function (V2.0). In case you could use the headlight flasher switch of the standard switch gear for the complete headlight operation, this would be reduced to 1 relay for the starter. If not, 3 additional relays is the minimum.
If period looking or standard operation is not your main goal, adding at least one button, switching left side of the switchgear to a 3 button push-button gear (headlight, horn, turnsignal; alternatively 4 for left and right turnsignal) or completely switch to push button operation will reduce the need for relays to 1 for the starter and the m-unit can play its role as it was designed. Adding the m-button to the cabling will reduce the overall cabling to the lowest possible point.
BTW: this is not to criticize any of you, it is to simply to find out under witch conditions what is really necessary and what other solutions are possible, please. I will use the M-Unit myself on the motoplast once the project progresses (unfortunately I am depending on others gentle support, which is quite time consuming...) and am really glad I can learn from those who have already used it. If there is no way around adding relays in certain operation modes, so be it. But every relay that can be avoided, should be avoided, as it is another point that can fail and complicates the cabling massively. That is the reason I am pushing for base information and options, please, and I hope not to be to much of a pain to you.
Cheers
Lothar
With the original (or any other similar) switches, you will need (up to) 5 additional relays (while sidestand relay is obviously not 100% necessary, as is ignition relay, which would reduce it even with standard switches to 3 I would say) and the use of the M-Unit is limited to a kind of central fuse box with an alarm function (V2.0). In case you could use the headlight flasher switch of the standard switch gear for the complete headlight operation, this would be reduced to 1 relay for the starter. If not, 3 additional relays is the minimum.
If period looking or standard operation is not your main goal, adding at least one button, switching left side of the switchgear to a 3 button push-button gear (headlight, horn, turnsignal; alternatively 4 for left and right turnsignal) or completely switch to push button operation will reduce the need for relays to 1 for the starter and the m-unit can play its role as it was designed. Adding the m-button to the cabling will reduce the overall cabling to the lowest possible point.
BTW: this is not to criticize any of you, it is to simply to find out under witch conditions what is really necessary and what other solutions are possible, please. I will use the M-Unit myself on the motoplast once the project progresses (unfortunately I am depending on others gentle support, which is quite time consuming...) and am really glad I can learn from those who have already used it. If there is no way around adding relays in certain operation modes, so be it. But every relay that can be avoided, should be avoided, as it is another point that can fail and complicates the cabling massively. That is the reason I am pushing for base information and options, please, and I hope not to be to much of a pain to you.
Cheers
Lothar
markQLD
Hero member
- Location
- QLD Australia
sorry Lothar, but may i kindly suggest you move your M-unit thinking to an M-unit topic ??
http://www.laverdaforum.com/forum/index.php/topic,91544.0.html
or start your own ??
coz i want to read about the Motodd in the farken Motodd topic. please !!
thank you :-*
<edit> & thanks to admin for our relocation to a 'M-unit' topic.
maybe this one ??Laverdalothar said:
http://www.laverdaforum.com/forum/index.php/topic,91544.0.html
or start your own ??
coz i want to read about the Motodd in the farken Motodd topic. please !!
thank you :-*
<edit> & thanks to admin for our relocation to a 'M-unit' topic.
D
Davo
Guest
markQLD said:
Feeling a bit tetchy? Have another cooling rum. I'm having a red myself.
Laverdalothar
Hero member
- Location
- Germany
markQLD said:
Mmhh - so Red should delete his pics and post about the M-Unit installation, too?
81Lav
Hero member
- Location
- NSW Australia
In order not to upset Mark I thought I would post Here!
There are some things I like about the M-Unit, Switching earths is a good thing rather than running Batt everywhere.
Minimum current through all the old switchgear is also a good thing.
The M-Lock is cool.
BUT I reckon they stopped short of getting it right.
If they had added an input for high and low beam and a separate output for the Tail Light they would have accommodated for most of the classic switchgear out there and allowed for an easy option on whether you want to run the headlight all the time or not. (Not all countries require the Headlight on all the time.)
Also I would prefer the Kill switch to just power off the coils and Ignition rather than kill everything (minor issue but not possible on the M-Unit as the Ignition is powered via the Aux output on the M-Unit which also powers the Tail Light.) Of course the addition of relays can overcome this issue.
Also why didn't they add in some fuses for things like the M Lock and Motoscope?
As somebody stated the whole concept of the M-Unit is to simplify the wiring so adding a bunch of relays and fuses seems to contradict the original reason for purchasing the unit.
I like the concept but they just fell a bit short on delivering the whole package.
Cheers
Bruce K
There are some things I like about the M-Unit, Switching earths is a good thing rather than running Batt everywhere.
Minimum current through all the old switchgear is also a good thing.
The M-Lock is cool.
BUT I reckon they stopped short of getting it right.
If they had added an input for high and low beam and a separate output for the Tail Light they would have accommodated for most of the classic switchgear out there and allowed for an easy option on whether you want to run the headlight all the time or not. (Not all countries require the Headlight on all the time.)
Also I would prefer the Kill switch to just power off the coils and Ignition rather than kill everything (minor issue but not possible on the M-Unit as the Ignition is powered via the Aux output on the M-Unit which also powers the Tail Light.) Of course the addition of relays can overcome this issue.
Also why didn't they add in some fuses for things like the M Lock and Motoscope?
As somebody stated the whole concept of the M-Unit is to simplify the wiring so adding a bunch of relays and fuses seems to contradict the original reason for purchasing the unit.
I like the concept but they just fell a bit short on delivering the whole package.
Cheers
Bruce K
Cosi
Hero member
- Location
- Kingscliff
Sounds like you need to make up a farmer B unit Mr....
Laverdalothar
Hero member
- Location
- Germany
Hi Bruce,
you can put the kill-switch between ignition and the M-unit, that would solve your first issue, no? I also read that "for streetfighters" you can configure the unit only to switch off ignition, but I need to re-read the instructions to find how. (I think they mean it for this "shot" some guys want to produce by killing ignition for 2 secs while engine turns => unused gas gets into the exhaust => explodes when you turn on ignition again). EDIT: Sorry, that was a function on a different, similar box.
Can you highlight why you wouldn't want the other circuits to be cut off, too, when kill switch function is used or which ones you would want to stay on? There is only a 2 second gap between using the kill switch and being able to turn it on again.
Also, you can change the setup of the M-Unit to a one-cable-operation mode for the taillight so that brake light and tail light are operated by one single cable from the brake-light-connector of the M-Unit. would solve your second point (you would need a LED taillight though for that as far as I understood the instructions; not sure if you can take any LED taillight or only a special one from motogadget?!?).
If you add one more button to the original handlebar switches or change completely to buttons, you can not only flash-light or toggle between high and low beam, you can also switch lights completely off by simply pressing and holding the button for 2 secs. solves your third point.
As said in the other thread: if you do not use all options it has, you may not benefit from all advantages it has.
I am considering for my Motoplast project to either use standard handelbar gears but install another button into one of the switche housings or completely replace it with something different. I saw some nice button applications from a different supplier, but I am not sure they would fit into the original switches. Still considering which route to go...
you can put the kill-switch between ignition and the M-unit, that would solve your first issue, no? I also read that "for streetfighters" you can configure the unit only to switch off ignition, but I need to re-read the instructions to find how. (I think they mean it for this "shot" some guys want to produce by killing ignition for 2 secs while engine turns => unused gas gets into the exhaust => explodes when you turn on ignition again). EDIT: Sorry, that was a function on a different, similar box.
Can you highlight why you wouldn't want the other circuits to be cut off, too, when kill switch function is used or which ones you would want to stay on? There is only a 2 second gap between using the kill switch and being able to turn it on again.
Also, you can change the setup of the M-Unit to a one-cable-operation mode for the taillight so that brake light and tail light are operated by one single cable from the brake-light-connector of the M-Unit. would solve your second point (you would need a LED taillight though for that as far as I understood the instructions; not sure if you can take any LED taillight or only a special one from motogadget?!?).
If you add one more button to the original handlebar switches or change completely to buttons, you can not only flash-light or toggle between high and low beam, you can also switch lights completely off by simply pressing and holding the button for 2 secs. solves your third point.
As said in the other thread: if you do not use all options it has, you may not benefit from all advantages it has.
I am considering for my Motoplast project to either use standard handelbar gears but install another button into one of the switche housings or completely replace it with something different. I saw some nice button applications from a different supplier, but I am not sure they would fit into the original switches. Still considering which route to go...
Dellortoman
Hero member
- Location
- Tasmania, Australia
Seems like a lot of farting about Lothar.
I'm old school. I like a switch for the headlights that says Off - On. Pressing and holding a button for 2 seconds or whatever tricks you have to do to make things work is not intuitive. You couldn't jump on an unfamiliar M-Unit bike with mysterious buttons everywhere and know how things work.
I think Bruce hit the nail on the head. It's almost a good product. A little more thought by the designers would actually make it useful and worth buying. As it is now, I wouldn't bother with it, even if they were giving them away free. It creates as many problems as it solves.
Cam
I'm old school. I like a switch for the headlights that says Off - On. Pressing and holding a button for 2 seconds or whatever tricks you have to do to make things work is not intuitive. You couldn't jump on an unfamiliar M-Unit bike with mysterious buttons everywhere and know how things work.
I think Bruce hit the nail on the head. It's almost a good product. A little more thought by the designers would actually make it useful and worth buying. As it is now, I wouldn't bother with it, even if they were giving them away free. It creates as many problems as it solves.
Cam
A friend of mine rides a 750 GT quite a lot. For some reason, he had a pro look at the electrics and the pro put relays in.
You guessed it, the faithful GT broke down. Dud relay.
The less things you have and the simpler they are, the less breakdowns you'll have.
Paul
You guessed it, the faithful GT broke down. Dud relay.
The less things you have and the simpler they are, the less breakdowns you'll have.
Paul
Laverdalothar
Hero member
- Location
- Germany
Cam, disappointment is always a result of a mismatch between expectation and outcome.
The M Unit is NOT designed mainly for usage with old school, classic handle bar switches. It is designed to reduce cabling and weight on the bike as much as possible. It is designed for custom bike scene, not for classic bikes. You can make it work with some limitations on classic bikes with classic switch gears, too, but then you will face some limitations. Why? Because you are not using it for what it is designed. Problem of the product? I don't think so. Look at their homepage and at the manual, you will find that the target market is custom bikes and you also will find the limitations and options listed in the manual.
Sorry if this sounds upsetting, but to me, it sounds a bit like moaning about missing cross-country mobility of a Lambo Aventador... or vice versa: claiming about limited track-usability of a Landrover. Sorry if this sounds extreme, but I think you get the picture.
My expectation is that in the right environment, it will solve a lot of issues and play its strengths. If you put it into the wrong environment, you limit the options and won't benefit from everything the box can do.
Buttons or switches is for me the same discussion as right or left hand shifting: if you have both, it takes a while but you will adopt to it.
It's all about expectation and outcome...
The M Unit is NOT designed mainly for usage with old school, classic handle bar switches. It is designed to reduce cabling and weight on the bike as much as possible. It is designed for custom bike scene, not for classic bikes. You can make it work with some limitations on classic bikes with classic switch gears, too, but then you will face some limitations. Why? Because you are not using it for what it is designed. Problem of the product? I don't think so. Look at their homepage and at the manual, you will find that the target market is custom bikes and you also will find the limitations and options listed in the manual.
Sorry if this sounds upsetting, but to me, it sounds a bit like moaning about missing cross-country mobility of a Lambo Aventador... or vice versa: claiming about limited track-usability of a Landrover. Sorry if this sounds extreme, but I think you get the picture.
My expectation is that in the right environment, it will solve a lot of issues and play its strengths. If you put it into the wrong environment, you limit the options and won't benefit from everything the box can do.
Buttons or switches is for me the same discussion as right or left hand shifting: if you have both, it takes a while but you will adopt to it.
It's all about expectation and outcome...
Cosi
Hero member
- Location
- Kingscliff
Laverdalothar said:It's all about expectation and outcome...
Yep, don't expect too much and the outcome will mostly be good
markQLD
Hero member
- Location
- QLD Australia
oh, i get by with a little help from my friends!
cheers (bigthumb) & i'll get the next shout Bruce. (bolt)
81Lav said:
cheers (bigthumb) & i'll get the next shout Bruce. (bolt)
padlock
Hero member
- Location
- bedford Uk
I've got an m-unit and m-button, motogadget switch gear and motogadget speedo/rev counter to fit to jenny,will be no indicators, no back brake light and no ignition switch, am hoping that who ever actually builds the loom for me will get it down to about three wires.I may be able to understand it then.
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