Anyone know anything about this SFC in Qld

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My Electronica is valued for insurance purposes at € 48 000.
Otherwise, if anybody has a Ferrari 250 SWB for swap, I'm game.

Paul
 
Have a read of this related thread for more info on the same bike....

750SFC ex-Tim Isles

Talk about coincidence...... :o We have just returned from holiday, which included a Transatlantic sailing from the UK to New York. Sitting having lunch on board the ship on the first day, we got chatting to another couple and unsurprisingly the topic of conversation turned to bikes (as often...
laverdaforum.com laverdaforum.com
 
Well, I hope they all sell for the asking price. I have no problem with Laverda no longer being “the Italian bike you never heard of”. High sale prices bring publicity and publicity of record prices will bring bikes out of sheds and into workshops. That will bring demand for parts, helping us all. Sure some few machines will be put on pedestals and never ridden, but most will not and that will create demand for consumable supplies to keep them on the road. Even if they only ride on sunny Sundays they will still be ridden and that will create new generations of enthusiasts.
 
Alzero said:
Well, I hope they all sell for the asking price. I have no problem with Laverda no longer being “the Italian bike you never heard of”. High sale prices bring publicity and publicity of record prices will bring bikes out of sheds and into workshops. That will bring demand for parts, helping us all. Sure some few machines will be put on pedestals and never ridden, but most will not and that will create demand for consumable supplies to keep them on the road. Even if they only ride on sunny Sundays they will still be ridden and that will create new generations of enthusiasts.
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No, definitely no.
High prices mean they aren't used. The only way of ensuring a parts supply is using the bikes, and wearing them out.
When was the last time you saw an SFC ridden to a Laverda meeting, rain, mud and all? In fact when was the last time you saw an SFC outside of race track demos, and even then?
You used to be able to see them out on the road occasionally 30 years ago; are they off the road because they aren't expensive enough?

When was the last time you saw an MV 4, a round case 750 SS or a Brough out on the road other than immacutely polished for some fancy "have you seen me and what I've got" do?


When was the last time you saw a Laverda out on the road, a blustery winter's day, on a wet and muddy road at that?

And even if $ 150 000 SFCs meant that one or two people would ensure parts back up for them at ridiculous prices matching the sale price because they'd be solely rich peoples toys, what would that mean for the normal motorcyclist with a 3C or a 750 doing several thousands of miles a year and needing basic maintenance parts, and know how?

There were 35 000 Laverda 75 or 98cc singles made. Where are they, who's using them regularly, what's the parts back up for those?
Maybe they're not expensive enough?

All bikes are made to be ridden, all the time.

Paul
 
I really don’t care if €150,000 SFCs never get ridden as long as they bring up the value of the rest of the fleet. A higher value for the more pedestrian machines mean the cost of restoration will be more likely to be recouped which means more will be restored. The non-SFC bikes WILL get ridden and they WILL need basic maintenance parts and those parts WILL get reproduced since there will be a big enough customer base to make it profitable.

You have given an excellent example of this with the 35,000 singles: they weren’t valued enough to preserve, aren’t valuable enough to restore and thus there is no market for new spares. How many times have you seen or heard of makers needing a minimum order before reproducing a given item? If the number of bikes needing that part falls below a critical number the part will not be made and the bikes that need it will not be on the road.

It’s all about the money: the more money chasing after a marque, the more examples of that marque there will be. Laverdas were never an entry level machine for new riders, they were never inexpensive when new nor when used. Why shouldn’t they continue being valued and valuable today?

And one can see all sorts of very expensive bikes on the road if you know where and when to look. For instance, the Rock Store in the Malibu hills on any Sunday it isn’t raining (Californians don’t like the rain, it is so rare that it raises the oil and makes the roads like ice). Round case Ducs are ordinary there and don’t get a second look…… All sorts of collectors can be found out for a morning ride in the hills for breakfast, but they are gone by the time the squids start racing and the cops come out!
 
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Alzero said:
I really don’t care if €150,000 SFCs never get ridden as long as they bring up the value of the rest of the fleet. A higher value for the more pedestrian machines mean the cost of restoration will be more likely to be recouped which means more will be restored. The non-SFC bikes WILL get ridden and they WILL need basic maintenance parts and those parts WILL get reproduced since there will be a big enough customer base to make it profitable.

You have given an excellent example of this with the 35,000 singles: they weren’t valued enough to preserve, aren’t valuable enough to restore and thus there is no market for new spares. How many times have you seen or heard of makers needing a minimum order before reproducing a given item? If the number of bikes needing that part falls below a critical number the part will not be made and the bikes that need it will not be on the road.

It’s all about the money: the more money chasing after a marque, the more examples of that marque there will be. Laverdas were never an entry level machine for new riders, they were never inexpensive when new nor when used. Why shouldn’t they continue being valued and valuable today?

And one can see all sorts of very expensive bikes on the road if you know where and when to look. For instance, the Rock Store in the Malibu hills on any Sunday it isn’t raining (Californians don’t like the rain, it is so rare that it raises the oil and makes the roads like ice). Round case Ducs are ordinary there and don’t get a second look…… All sorts of collectors can be found out for a morning ride in the hills for breakfast, but they are gone by the time the squids start racing and the cops come out!
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It's all about getting cold, wet miserable and risking getting killed or maimed by a car driver on the phone.
It's all about fun, discovering people and places.
It's all about like minded friends.
It's all about comradeship and solidarity.

None of the above have anything to do with money, in fact quite the contrary, money is a hindrance for all the above.
Money makes the marque attractive to easily influenced people looking for an ego boost. They know nothing about the bikes, if they do their own maintenance, they work hard at making sure less and less bikes survive and on the maintenance and parts front, money brings on to the scene "mechanics and engineers", without a hint of passion for the bikes but a lot of interest in making easy money out of well off morons contributing all the more to the rapid disappearance of the few remaining bikes capable of being used for what they were designed for, riding.

For your information, there are a hell of a lot of 75 or 98cc singles still out there because they aren't worth a dime and only people with a real interest are ready to put money into restoring one of these old work horses used for decades as a ride to work hack.

Paul

Paul
 
In California we don’t get cold or wet, but we do form lasting friendships through the shared love of cars and bikes. Friendships that cross social and financial classes. I’ve never found money or the lack of it to make the slightest difference and if you feel having money is a hindrance to fun, going places and meeting people, then Europe is very different from America. And I have found that wealthy motorcyclists are just as susceptible to getting maimed or killed as the poor.

I used to chat with Jay Leno at the Rock Store on many a Sunday and several years after I moved away I was having high tea with my wife at the Empress Hotel in Victoria, BC when he and his wife came in. As they were ushered past our table he did a double take and greeted me with a “Hi Mr Laverda, how’s the bike doing?”. We were not friends and he remembered my bike and face, not my name, but there was a shared solidarity and connection through our mutual interests.

The last time I met him, it was with my Lotus 11 replica, we spent a half hour opening it up and looking it over as he admired the work I had done. He then did the same for me with his aero engined Bentley, so I don’t think his money was a hindrance then. I certainly didn’t feel uncomfortable talking with him. Perhaps in Europe social class and wealth are more closely linked than in America and there are higher class barriers?
 
Alzero said:
In California we don’t get cold or wet, but we do form lasting friendships through the shared love of cars and bikes. Friendships that cross social and financial classes. I’ve never found money or the lack of it to make the slightest difference and if you feel having money is a hindrance to fun, going places and meeting people, then Europe is very different from America. And I have found that wealthy motorcyclists are just as susceptible to getting maimed or killed as the poor.

I used to chat with Jay Leno at the Rock Store on many a Sunday and several years after I moved away I was having high tea with my wife at the Empress Hotel in Victoria, BC when he and his wife came in. As they were ushered past our table he did a double take and greeted me with a “Hi Mr Laverda, how’s the bike doing?”. We were not friends and he remembered my bike and face, not my name, but there was a shared solidarity and connection through our mutual interests.

The last time I met him, it was with my Lotus 11 replica, we spent a half hour opening it up and looking it over as he admired the work I had done. He then did the same for me with his aero engined Bentley, so I don’t think his money was a hindrance then. I certainly didn’t feel uncomfortable talking with him. Perhaps in Europe social class and wealth are more closely linked than in America and there are higher class barriers?
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We won't reach an accord because we don't live in the same world.

Over here, yes, we get cold and wet on our motorcycles and some of my good friends pride themselves in setting off mid winter on motorcycles to the high plateaux of central France or the Alps for a camping weekend with evening around a log fire. Or the Elefanten Treffen. I admire them. Because it's the heart of what motorcycling is about, it's a socially marginal activity full of marginal people. That's what it's about, it's not just another pastime. It's a way of life.
And because a lot if not most of the people leading a life with motorcycles, not just owning them, are not well off, the high price of some machines is just subtracting those machines from the world of motorcycles and motorcycling.

I have a group of friends who some years back went to the North Cape, and back, from Central France, in February, on solo motorcycles. It makes for great story telling.

I firmly believe and I'm not alone in that, that car people and motorcycle people do not mix. It's not the same world because of what I wrote above. Cars are not a marginal activity, car people aren't marginal; motorcycles and motorcyclists are.

You will not prove to me that two rich white men meeting in a luxury hotel in Victoria and exchanging banalities is a sign of bridging the class divide or a proof of inter class solidarity., nor is showing each other the engines of your expensive collectors cars. Your comment concerning Jay Leno's money not being a hindrance is proof of my point, he's just richer than you are but you partake of the same world.

I very much hope that your trip around Europe will be profitable and that you'll dig a bit deeper than the hoards of Chinese, Japanese and American tourists we have flowing through here. There are plenty of class separations and there is a definite link between wealth and social class but you'll find societies struggling since the 19th century, with difficulty, it's an endless struggle, to help and support those in need, as a society and not leaving that to charities, religious with all that implies, for the most part.
You might also look back and see that the United States is the most divided society of the Western world and that money is one of the divides. Money is a value as you pointed out with your comment about Jay Leno, who incidentally, no one has heard about over here. Luckily.
Social barriers are numerous and the American dream is long gone leaving a country with the worst and most expensive health system of the Western world and no social welfare because the rich refuse to fund it, leaving the doors wide open to religious nutters.

Lets hope we can keep on riding our Laverda motorcycles, irrespective of class or fortune and that implies that they stay at reasonable prices.

Paul
 
Alzero said:
I really don’t care if €150,000 SFCs never get ridden as long as they bring up the value of the rest of the fleet. A higher value for the more pedestrian machines mean the cost of restoration will be more likely to be recouped which means more will be restored. The non-SFC bikes WILL get ridden and they WILL need basic maintenance parts and those parts WILL get reproduced since there will be a big enough customer base to make it profitable.

You have given an excellent example of this with the 35,000 singles: they weren’t valued enough to preserve, aren’t valuable enough to restore and thus there is no market for new spares. How many times have you seen or heard of makers needing a minimum order before reproducing a given item? If the number of bikes needing that part falls below a critical number the part will not be made and the bikes that need it will not be on the road.

It’s all about the money: the more money chasing after a marque, the more examples of that marque there will be. Laverdas were never an entry level machine for new riders, they were never inexpensive when new nor when used. Why shouldn’t they continue being valued and valuable today?

And one can see all sorts of very expensive bikes on the road if you know where and when to look. For instance, the Rock Store in the Malibu hills on any Sunday it isn’t raining (Californians don’t like the rain, it is so rare that it raises the oil and makes the roads like ice). Round case Ducs are ordinary there and don’t get a second look…… All sorts of collectors can be found out for a morning ride in the hills for breakfast, but they are gone by the time the squids start racing and the cops come out!
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I think your confusing market value and actual interest- if Laverdas get any more expensive they will become poker chips for investors whose interest is purely monetary and not in riding. Your round case Ducatis are ridden because they are affordable, ordinary unlike in UK where they are massively overpriced and overpolished .
Boosted prices helps no one but dealers and auction houses. The reason not many small bikes are restored is it costs almost as much as a big big and all you get is a little uncomfortable bike that can’t keep up with traffic.
The UK is being flooded with Californian imports ( British and Japanese bikes) that have sat unloved in scrap yards, they are rebuilt in UK due to “real” interest not value.
 
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