Archive stuff

Just to say you may have got the impression that I am not a fan of the V6...not the case , quite the opposite in fact , (not that my opinion counts for anything , but this is supposed to be General Discussion so your`e gonna get it anyway ! ) .
It just seems to me that the V6 at that time would have taken too much time and money to turn it into a competitive racing motorcycle . Massimo said it would have been possible to get the V6 down to a weight of 190 kg , " all it would have taken was money " which kind of sums up the whole problem .

How did the factory view the V6...as a test bed for a new model range , endurance racer , flagship sports roadster ? ... probably all three .

The Japanese could afford to turn out one off prototypes or projects (Hondas oval piston 500 GP racer , or Yamahas 700cc water cooled two stroke four cylinder road bike for example) , but if these ventures failed miserably (Honda) , or came to nothing (Yamaha) , it didn`t matter , the Japanese had the resources and corporate strength to shrug these losses off , and the ability to just carry on churning out thousands of profitable motorcycles as if nothing had happened .

For a tiny concern like Laverda the V6 took on much more importance than that of a project that may or may not work .

Selling low volume production good quality motorcycles at inflated prices may have worked in the past , but with the Japanese now producing equally good high performing machines at much lower prices what do you do now ?
Would a range of motorcycles derived from that original V6 saved Laverda ?
How long would it have taken and how much would it have cost to develop such a range , and even if that had been possible how could Laverda have produced them in sufficient numbers to generate any sort of return on that investment given the production facilities available to them at the time .

The V6 itself could have been marketed as a flagship model at an inflated price in order to cover costs (maybe) , but any V twin or V four derived from the V6 would have to be produced in higher volumes , and at a competitive price in order to be profitable ......would Laverda be in a position to deliver on that ?

It was rumoured at one time that Luciano Zen tried to persuade the Laverda brothers to kill the V6 off , through jealousy / resentment due to the fact it was really Alfieri`s baby , not his . This was obviously rubbish as Zen and Alfieri worked closely together on it , but you do wonder if Zen might have pondered sometimes as to exactly where the V6 was taking Laverda .
His approach from the 75 singles onward had always been that of careful ,methodical development , not leaping in at the deep end with a new radical design .

Maybe he was the only one who could see the V6 for what it really was : a technological dead end which sucked the likeblood out of the original Moto Laverda company...( Still a fantastic bike though )...
 
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Just to say you may have got the impression that I am not a fan of the V6...not the case , quite the opposite in fact , (not that my opinion counts for anything , but this is supposed to be General Discussion so your`e gonna get it anyway ! ) .
It just seems to me that the V6 at that time would have taken too much time and money to turn it into a competitive racing motorcycle . Massimo said it would have been possible to get the V6 down to a weight of 190 kg , " all it would have taken was money " which kind of sums up the whole problem .

How did the factory view the V6...as a test bed for a new model range , endurance racer , flagship sports roadster ? ... probably all three .

The Japanese could afford to turn out one off prototypes or projects (Hondas oval piston 500 GP racer , or Yamahas 700cc water cooled two stroke four cylinder road bike for example) , but if these ventures failed miserably (Honda) , or came to nothing (Yamaha) , it didn`t matter , the Japanese had the resources and corporate strength to shrug these losses off , and the ability to just carry on churning out thousands of profitable motorcycles as if nothing had happened .

For a tiny concern like Laverda the V6 took on much more importance than that of a project that may or may not work .

Selling low volume production good quality motorcycles at inflated prices may have worked in the past , but with the Japanese now producing equally good high performing machines at much lower prices what do you do now ?
Would a range of motorcycles derived from that original V6 saved Laverda ?
How long would it have taken and how much would it have cost to develop such a range , and even if that had been possible how could Laverda have produced them in sufficient numbers to generate any sort of return on that investment given the production facilities available to them at the time .

The V6 itself could have been marketed as a flagship model at an inflated price in order to cover costs (maybe) , but any V twin or V four derived from the V6 would have to be produced in higher volumes , and at a competitive price in order to be profitable ......would Laverda be in a position to deliver on that ?

It was rumoured at one time that Luciano Zen tried to persuade the Laverda brothers to kill the V6 off , through jealousy / resentment due to the fact it was really Alfieri`s baby , not his . This was obviously rubbish as Zen and Alfieri worked closely together on it , but you do wonder if Zen might have pondered sometimes as to exactly where the V6 was taking Laverda .
His approach from the 75 singles onward had always been that of careful ,methodical development , not leaping in at the deep end with a new radical design .

Maybe he was the only one who could see the V6 for what it really was : a technological dead end which sucked the likeblood out of the original Moto Laverda company...( Still a fantastic bike though )...
It wasn't the V6 that sucked the lifeblood of Moto Laverda, it just turned up when there wasn't any blood left. It was downhill from the mid seventies due to family matters and no doubt over optimistic management.

Paul
 
are you sure that is Cico in post 228? I have seen that picture many times and labelled the same, but I think it could be Gareth Jones, who was at one time Cropredy motorcycles (the Liberator was a rebadged Cico) and later Banbury superbike centre (or some such)

There is another mis labelled pic that pops up a lot as Massimo Laverda, but it is in fact Alfieri, I cant find the damn thing right now.

CLEM
 
It wasn't the V6 that sucked the lifeblood of Moto Laverda, it just turned up when there wasn't any blood left. It was downhill from the mid seventies due to family matters and no doubt over optimistic management.

Paul
I agree esp. concerning the management side of things...you have to make the correct decision when the writing is on the wall and you`re unsure of the right route to take...
Colin Chapman of Lotus once said " I want professionals working for me , not enthusiasts "....with Laverda it was the other way round , but then it was that enthusiasm which made the company what it was .
The V6 wasn`t quite the final chapter ...the V3 350 Lesmo was probably that , it seems by this time (early `eighties ) the company really had been looking around in several directions at once , unsure of the best route to safety .
 
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are you sure that is Cico in post 228? I have seen that picture many times and labelled the same, but I think it could be Gareth Jones, who was at one time Cropredy motorcycles (the Liberator was a rebadged Cico) and later Banbury superbike centre (or some such)

There is another mis labelled pic that pops up a lot as Massimo Laverda, but it is in fact Alfieri, I cant find the damn thing right now.

CLEM
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Hi Clem , yes it is Cico (got the spelling right this time ) , full article above together with a couple more images .
Repo isn`t that great but note it says bike pictured is 1203cc (fair enough ) , makes 110 bhp at the rear wheel ( ok , if you say so ) , and weighs just 330 lbs ( bleedin `ell , you sure about that ? ) .
Used to visit Cropredy quite a lot when they were by the canal side , I think it was Superbike House when they moved to Bridge Street in Banbury .
Visited the new shop once in `82 or `83 but by now there were BMX bikes up on the wall and you had to queue up behind 10 year old kids buying transfers and pink handlebar grips...plus they didn`t have the exhaust gaskets I was after .
Tony .
 
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The V6 was a dead end but we all love a glorious failure don't we. It's a shame but what is success anyway? Is it survival or being true to yourself? It's a sort of romantic failure for me. Luckily I wasn't anywhere near the fallout, people did lose their livelihoods and I believe some are still understandably resentful.
 
It`s 1982 , the V6 is in the past , the 350 Lesmo in the future and Massimo has given up worrying about it all ; early (maybe first production , although mirrors look different ? ) RGS introduced to British press ; and I think this is Oss 1970 with at left Nino Caretta (just) , Luciano Zen and Augusto Brettoni...not sure who other rider is but four Dutch riders backed up regular teamsters Brettoni and Dossena .

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Slater Bros. sell a bike at BMF Rally 1973 , Nice Commando from a batch made specially for French Police for escort duties and competitive events ( hence large tank ) , Malcolm Cox special framed triple , M&T endurance triple 1974 , and finally Randy Skiver demonstrating why Triumph twins were so popular in the USA by winning Castle Rock TT in 1977 on his Triumph 650 twin .
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are you sure that is Cico in post 228? I have seen that picture many times and labelled the same, but I think it could be Gareth Jones, who was at one time Cropredy motorcycles (the Liberator was a rebadged Cico) and later Banbury superbike centre (or some such)

There is another mis labelled pic that pops up a lot as Massimo Laverda, but it is in fact Alfieri, I cant find the damn thing right now.

CLEM
If you mean this one, Clem, it is definitely not Gareth Jones, of Cropredy fame.2022-06-23 (13).png
 
1971 Barcelona 24 hr Race at Montjuic Park with the M&T BSA 500 single spoiling Laverdas clean sweep , second pic shows Nigel Rollason on the BSA leading Bruno Cretti on the Laverda .
Last pic is Ginger Woods just after becoming airborne at 130 mph heading towards the Melbourne Hairpin at Donington Park in 1938 on his Series A Vincent Rapide .

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BTW This 1938 picture taken at Donington Park is a reminder that it came into being as a rival to nearby Syston Park , which was a well known race circuit between the wars...a chap called Fred Craner saw that a circuit built in the grounds of a stately house could be profitable to the owners so he approached the owners of nearby Donington Park with a plan to build a rival circuit to Syston there...they agreed , and this new circuit ran until the outbreak of WW2 . It then remained closed until 1976 when the new , extended circuit was re opened...Craner Curves on the new circuit is named after the chap whose idea it originally was .
 
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It`s 1976 and for Pete Davies and Roger Taylor it`s business as usual and also Phil Read on what must be one of his last rides on the MV 500 ; MV`s last attempt in the 500 class in the face of the rising tide of two strokes ( Phil Read once said that Arturo Magni a few years earlier told him " Phil , the two strokes will never win a 500 cc title ") ; still `76 and results for that years Bol d`Or held at LeMans... nice to see a Laverda 100 single doing so well against the big Japanese fours , also ex Laverda Space Frame rider Georges Fougeray now on a Kawasaki , and ex Norton teamster Dave Croxfords last ride before retiring for good " to go fishing" ; Peter Williams on the Works monocoque Norton Commando ; Slater Bros. try to stir up interest in a couple of poor selling Laverdas ; and finally Valentino`s dad Graziano , Patrick Pons , Barry Sheene , Johnny Ceccoto and Kenny Roberts hear that Giacomo Agostini has finally decided to retire...actually the smiles won`t last as all pictured except Ceccoto had pledged themselves to the breakaway World Series , while Ceccoto stayed with the FIM World Championship { Didn`t matter , all came to nothing ) .

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Just in case you`re interested / getting bored / wondering how much longer is this going to go on , I`m probably about half way through now , so a quick break from all that Laverda stuff for a moment before I launch into part 2....

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A Harley Davidson XLCR rider wonders why people keep laughing at him...

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Kawasaki USA employee Steve Strickland demonstrates the new Mach IV...

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Martin Child tries to pop his R1`s fork seals whilst Wayne Gardner goes over the top..

...while this 1200TS rider shows them both how it should be done ...( not going downhill I`m afraid though Ron...)...
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Back with our favourite motorcycles...
Jota impressions , although the speed in gears quoted relate to the Slater racing bike they tested with the close ratio intermediate gears , not standard , which also killed the standing start quarter mile time...
Also Pete Davies Formula 500 ; and Laverda telling you to dump your slow old 750 and get the new faster 500 ....
And finally Tarquinio Provini will sell you a new 750SF in kit form for £3.95 , plastic tank mind so steer clear of the E10 , or E anything really...

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BTW this model has the Laverda front brake , but is styled more like the earlier 750S , I thought the first SF`s came with the later styling , maybe I`m wrong or maybe Tarquinio`s done a bit of mix and match...

BTW (again )...I`m wondering if the Roger Davies in the Formula 500 article is a typo and should actually be Roger Slater... I think this was 1980 so Roger would have still been in England .
 
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One of the other highlights of the Festival of a Thousand Bikes, Last weekend, was a visit by Gareth Jones, of Cropredy fame.
He kindly brought a couple of photograph albums for Ted to scan and add to ILOC's historical records.
It was great to see him, and catch up.

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That`s nice to see , visited Cropredy quite often in early `eighties , went up on a 250 MZ to pick up a copy of the Green Book the weekend before I got the Mirage , it was also Cropredy who sorted out the cylinder head when I found out I had negative valve clearance on 4 out of 6....I posted the head up to them in a cardboard box...that would have been May 1980 , a couple of months after I got the bike .
 
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