Australian Historic Racing Period 4 Triple

redax5 said:
correct, in BEARs I can modify my bikes as much as I wish to, or as much as Redax can afford to spend on them
am allowed to run carbon front brake rotors if I wished to as an example but man, they are super expensive

TRex bikes are PCRA Period 5, as was Crispin's Space frame but I fail to see the attraction in racing in that class when the TRex bikes are going through an engine every race meeting at $25k +/- per engine rebuild and laying down something like 180hp rear wheel
Difficult to compete at that level with an old Laverda clunker

My aim is to lower the BEARs Formula 4 track record at every track we race at to a point where the Laverda name will remain in the BEARs record books for many years to come, then I will retire them
We already have the track record at every track we race at but looking at going faster yet

Richard already giving me a hard time wanting to know when he can take possession of Veloce in road trim :D:eek:
Couple of years l
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breganzane said:
To the original question, Greg Parish got a standard framed triple log booked for P4. He ran it for a while at various meetings around 2013-14, so there's precedent if you want to chase that down. Cam Douglas ran his RGS based bike in P5 but was allegedly told (by MA) he could run it in P4 if he fitted suitable wheels.

I suspect if one were to get a triple fast enough to start beating the frontrunners, then its dubious production status in '72 might see it get protested into P5 (as happened with the Z900's). But getting a triple to the front in P4 is going to be difficult, the 750 is and always was better on a racetrack. :)

Regarding matters of eligibility, it's more or less all in black and white here:
www.ma.org.au

General Competition Rules - Motorcycling Australia

All motorcycle competition in Australia is conducted according to the General Competition Rules (GCRs), which are contained in the Manual of Motorcycle Sport. The GCRs contain the rules and guidelines for participating in and conducting Motorcycle Sport, and are designed to ensure fair and safe...
www.ma.org.au www.ma.org.au
Download the Manual of Motorsport, there's a whole chapter on Historic Racing. There are a few specific limitations but it's pretty liberal, P4 bikes can be fast! You've got to "do a Gigi" and read what it doesn't say you can't do.
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“Back to the original topic” ha ha, classic. Thanks for your response to my question. I had forgotten Greg did it. I have raced period 5 and in the under 500s did enough winning to take a club championship , so it’s not new to me. Yes I read the rules, and thought it must be possible. A mate of mine ran in P4 at the Nationals on his Guzzi Imola replica 1000 last week end and ran second after being in the lead a lot of the time. I was dreaming up a Laverda build to run in P4 with him if there was a precedent. Semi stock frame , triple, 180, disk brakes up front , 38mm forks, all the stuff on the other P4 bikes. It was great to see and hear the Guzzi out ahead of the Honda K1 based bikes. So , thanks Steve.
 
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Yes, I’ve come up against a few of them back in the 80’s in BOTT etc.
I always quite liked them, and bid on a Gutsi racer a couple of years back that had been imported from the US that the seller claimed had a lot of Dr John parts. Unfortunately a few others also fancied it.
 
I guess you always have to ask yourself, who are the rules made to benefit?
I find rules are often changed or interpreted to suit people with influence over the rule makers, and often lack clarity and consistency.
Generally, over here it is accepted if you can provide evidence a particular model was launched before a certain cut-off date (however arbitrary that date appears to be) then you can run a bike that was manufactured after that date provided it is demonstrably derived from the bike launched prior to the cut-off date.
 
Sometimes it seems rules are made to get rid of people from already shrinking fields. Here they recently brought in that you have to use the frame for the actual motor, no combinations (like Triumph motor in BSA frame type stuff) which everyone did back then, but people with current machine cards could continue racing their bikes. Pushing for a show parade it seems.
In my class after years of racing with "Carburettor: free choice", they introduced that carbs had to be period correct. I stuck with my FCR, just put Keihin flatslide in machine card. Could have been protested out.
 
Andy J said:
Generally, over here it is accepted if you can provide evidence a particular model was launched before a certain cut-off date (however arbitrary that date appears to be) then you can run a bike that was manufactured after that date provided it is demonstrably derived from the bike launched prior to the cut-off date.
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That logic would let you run a Commando up against 1930s bikes, Andy.
 
Tippie said:
Sometimes it seems rules are made to get rid of people from already shrinking fields. Here they recently brought in that you have to use the frame for the actual motor, no combinations (like Triumph motor in BSA frame type stuff) which everyone did back then, but people with current machine cards could continue racing their bikes. Pushing for a show parade it seems.
In my class after years of racing with "Carburettor: free choice", they introduced that carbs had to be period correct. I stuck with my FCR, just put Keihin flatslide in machine card. Could have been protested out.
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As a lot of ‘classic’ racing is now just ‘silhouette’ racing with modern everything then i often dont see the point in restricting stuff to ‘period’ this and that.
 
The majority of races here now are what we call "modern" classes, all fully faired mainly Japanese sportsbikes (plastic rockets), they are getting bloody old too, but absolutely lack the charm and vibe of the pre '80s bikes.
 
Tippie said:
The majority of races here now are what we call "modern" classes, all fully faired mainly Japanese sportsbikes (plastic rockets), they are getting bloody old too, but absolutely lack the charm and vibe of the pre '80s bikes.
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Twenty years back you'd have heard the same thing when comparing 70's bikes to 50's.
I've built pretty well every period racebikes from prewar to 90's and consider the early stuff presents the more interesting challenge.
Getting a prewar engine to make decent power isn't a problem, it's getting it to stay together which is.

In some ways I can appreciate the US attitude. If a bike is over 50 years of age, the people who raced them and those who watched them are generally gone. So that era becomes a display and parade class. Then you see the UK industry built around reproducing bikes of the 50's and 60's.
I really can't see anyone tooling up to reproduce 70's Japanese machinery.

My local historic club - CAMS Racing - has adopted new periods as they've grown. Which has kept a supply of new members coming and the club very healthy. The only other major club left in NZ based around classics is the Auckland based CMRR Register which is firmly rooted in pre 72 machinery. I'm told they're now shrinking noticeably. Clubs must move with the times or lose members.
 
R1's must surely be getting close to Post-Classic!! And the fully worked bikes like the Gixxers, FJRs and CBRs etc can be set up to closely match a 'modern' bike like the R1 anyway ... huge horsepower and frames and suspension that can easily made to be right up there. Once you get the ex-A graders on them it's pretty much gonna be midfield for 'privateers'.
 
At my recent track day my 1200 was the oldest bike there. No bevel Ducatis or Guzzis. Several belt 750/900 supersport Ducatis and the rest being jap pocket rockets.
Couple of panigales and a 800 MV triple.
 
GregT said:
Twenty years back you'd have heard the same thing when comparing 70's bikes to 50's.
I've built pretty well every period racebikes from prewar to 90's and consider the early stuff presents the more interesting challenge.
Getting a prewar engine to make decent power isn't a problem, it's getting it to stay together which is.

In some ways I can appreciate the US attitude. If a bike is over 50 years of age, the people who raced them and those who watched them are generally gone. So that era becomes a display and parade class. Then you see the UK industry built around reproducing bikes of the 50's and 60's.
I really can't see anyone tooling up to reproduce 70's Japanese machinery.

My local historic club - CAMS Racing - has adopted new periods as they've grown. Which has kept a supply of new members coming and the club very healthy. The only other major club left in NZ based around classics is the Auckland based CMRR Register which is firmly rooted in pre 72 machinery. I'm told they're now shrinking noticeably. Clubs must move with the times or lose members.
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That is exactly right Greg. There is plenty of interest and usually full fields in the "modern" classes, because the people who had those bikes new are now getting on and it is easy to get them out on the track, they are dirt cheap to buy and can be competitive with very little effort, compared with running a new bike in modern racing where they now really struggle to get participants here. The people who had that relationship with bikes from the ´60s and ´70s are now old and the bikes are generally far from as simple to keep competitive. Most younger riders on the older bikes are the kids of the owners. Natural progression. What I don't get is why they make rules that deter keen engineers from doing what they did back in the day and other rules that shrink already shrinking fields for the old classes. Very few people would know what they were looking at anyway. There is always a parade session and there it is anything goes, but you might not be allowed to race it.
 
Yeah, there's a big difference here between CAMS in the South Island and the Auckland based register in just that area. CAMS recognises that NZ has always had a lot of specials in our racing. Distance from manufacturers is largely to blame for that. They accept bikes built in the style of the period without insisting they be a copy of something actually raced. But must use period main components.
The Register will only accept exact copies of period bikes.
I know of several specials with period race history which have been broken up for parts to build yet another Manx or 7R. Which is denying our own history. I blame this on John Surtees who encouraged the Register to aim for authenticity - meaning British authenticity, not NZ
I have this AJS Stormer powered roadracer. It's CAMS legal for pre 72 but the Register won't accept it. The frame is in the style of the Stormer original but tweaked to suit a roadracer. Judge for yourself if it's right for pre 72. Old mate Mike Sinclair - ex Team Kenny Roberts - loves it. He lives just round the corner from me.
 

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