Centre stand

I'm happy to say I don't have to fit the main stand springs. They're in place and doing their job.
My challenge is cracking loose the lock nuts on the stand that allow adjustment fore/aft of the stand when deployed. At present the stand rests just barely over center, and could easily allow the bike to roll off. I've tried heating the damned nuts with a torch, but they won't budge.
 
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Hello all, I've been following this thread, as I'm trying to refit my stand, along side the bushman aftermarket sidestand that I've used alongside it since 2016.
I have bike number 6604 / which is a late 1979 orange/silver factory Jota, in the UK.
I've fitted the stand to the bike before, during my time with it since 2015, and I can't recall having the struggle with it, that am now having.
The bike was rebuilt and returned to the road with just the main stand on the bike, last year (only using this again initially). I took the main stand off again, in favour of the after market sidestand kit, last spring. Everything was fine with the main stand last year, as it always has been.
So , forward to now: I'm trying to refit the mainstand, alongside the sidestand kit, again last night (and i've done successfully several times before):
Last night, I tried fitting the stand to the frame lugs and stretching the springs back: but have had no chance of luck there.
Then tried the 'pennies in the springs trick', but I couldn't get enough in the winds to stretch it out (a general problem in life eh!)
Then I removed the the stand at the frame lugs and hung it on the springs and tried to ratchet it toward the lugs. This saw the springs 'pinging' off repeatedly. So I secured the springs on their frame lugs with snug 10mm fuel line clamps and nearly 'got there', until trying to deploy the stand: then the right side spring overcame the 10mm clamp (such was the sideways force at play on the spring at the frame), that spring 'pinged' off again! (left side spring is still in place).
Reaction: "aarrgh, sh!t, b#ll*cks,!" etc. as you'd expect.
I was fighting this bleeding thing from about 7pm to just after midnight last night (I can think of much better ways to spend a Saturday night).
So, it seems that the springs, when hung on stand retainers and the frame spring retainers: don't go straight back in line with each other. Instead they seem to be at about 45degrees to each other, traveling back to the frame, between the frame and stand, is that right? This angle seems to place sideways forces on the spring seat on the frame lug, which then tends to lever the spring off the lug again ... and again ... There's no apparent retainer, to stop the sideways force on the spring, like a clip or something (not that I can see), to hold the circular end of the spring to the frame, I can't understand that; what with forces that they seem to be under.
I still have a selection of both old and new springs that I tried, believe me; I tried them all. Some are obviously stretched and a bit bent, but still there was no joy to be had with those either.
The frame lugs for the springs are straight on the frame and they worked alright just 500miles ago (with nothing having happened to them since).
Clearly I'm doing it wrong now (there's another perennial problem), I can see that, but can't see what it is that am doing wrong?
I looked at the Parker green book; but only found something on stand removal, so no real help to be had there. I've looked across the Internet, and found nothing there.
Has anyone got any photos of the stand and it's springs correctly fitted to the frame please?
As BMW rider too, there are lots of 'how to' videos on YouTube (Chris Harris is pretty great), which are generally great to check your planning of a job, and see what you'll likely need before getting knee deep in a job. I'm wondering if any of members of this brilliant community might consider posting something similar? If the would, I'd gladly watch them :)
Best wishes to all, I'm off to get some new Bandaids...
 
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Springs can be bastards, any tool you use tends to get in the way. What about a ratchet strap off the stand lower bar and pulling off the rear wheel?
 
Cheers Vince.
That is similar to Clems advice of Sept 2021.
Sorry, and I can see that I'm the one at odds here, and so this might where I'm going wrong; but I can't see how ratcheting is toward the back wheel is moving the stand fix lugs towards the frame swivel points from there, it needs to go forward from what I'm looking at?
I'm trying to locate the springs on the 'sticky out' lugs, inside the lower frame, near the approx 60degree upward frame tube bend behind the gearbox. That's right, isn't it (I can't see anywhere else to go from?)
With the stand hanging on the springs, the stand lugs are about an inch behind the frame lugs, with the stand needing to move forward towards their mounting points (not rearwards)? Hence using ratchet from the front to drag the lugs together.
As above, I did have partial success doing that last night.
Until the spring 'pinged' off again as I tried to operate the thing.
Am I using the wrong spring lugs perhaps, but from memory, those points are the ones, and I can't see anywhere else for them to tension from?
I don't mind being wrong etc, I clearly have gone wrong, but any help is gratefully received.
Re spring tools, I did use two, one a tee-bar: really hurt my poor likkle hand, pulling on it so much (oo-eer). Then the other: it straightened out the bl@*dy hooked end!
Anyway, thanks again for answering Vince, if I am a Muppet for not understanding the rear wheel trick, can someone please help me to understand please, thanks all.
 
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Sounds extremely frustrating, and a very good reason to have a cuppa and think about it.
Can you post some photos? I’m a betting man and I’d put a dozen on it being obvious to someone if they can look at it.
 
After painting I fitted my centre stand back on yesterday to my Jota. I may have been lucky but I had no problems with it. With the stand hanging loose from the springs it was easy enough to pull the top into position. I then used a large screw driver to lever the bolt holes into position and insert the bolts. Not sure there is any particular trick to it.
 
be 6419 said:
I'm trying to locate the springs on the 'sticky out' lugs, inside the lower frame, near the approx 60degree upward frame tube bend behind the gearbox. That's right, isn't it (I can't see anywhere else to go from?)
Click to expand...
That doesn't sound as though you have the right attachment points...more like the stand stops? Hope the photo helps - stand stops are rubber covered metal 'prongs'

PXL_20230423_213618896.jpg
 
be 6419 said:
With the stand hanging on the springs, the stand lugs are about an inch behind the frame lugs, with the stand needing to move forward towards their mounting points (not rearwards)? Hence using ratchet from the front to drag the lugs together.
Click to expand...

A photo would help explain what you're doing. I can only imagine that you're trying to fit the stand in the deployed position, very much as in Rob's photo above, except with the bolts removed and the top lugs of the stand closer to the camera, behind their attachment points on the frame (photo is obviously looking forward on the bike). So you're trying to manipulate the top of the stand forward into position. It may be possible to wrestle the stand into position that way, but then how do you insert the hinge bolts? The springs will be in the way.
BTW Rob, that's the cleanest underbelly on a bike I've ever seen!

The ratchet strap process Vince describes refers to the stand being in the retracted position. With the stand dangling from its springs, swing it up towards the rear of the bike as near as you can get to its normal retracted position. Then the stand hinge lugs will lie forward of the frame lugs, so you'll need to pull the stand towards the back wheel as Vince described. With the springs lying in the retracted position, they don't block access for the hinge bolts.

As for my own method: I've always fitted the stand on its hinge bolts first. Then with the stand in its deployed position, put the top end of the springs on their lugs on the bike frame, and pull the springs down and hook their ends into the holes in the stand lugs. It takes a little bit of effort but is do-able with the right tool. You need a hook with a toggle-type handle to get good purchase on the end of the spring. It helps if the bike is jacked up a bit to give some working space underneath. The alternative is to have the bike lying on its side (particularly applicable to a bare frame build). That way it's dead easy - you can put your feet against the frame and really haul on the springs.

I made my hook from a 3" nail and a piece of round steel bar, but you could use a strong bit of wood as the handle. A bit of broom handle would do.

hook.JPG
 
It never occurred to me to buy a tool, even if I knew what to search for (I'm too stupid to make the connection with exhaust springs).
I probably would have had to buy it online, then wait a few days for it to turn up.
Mine took 10 minutes to make from stuff lying around the shed and cost nothing.

Those Motion Pro hooks don't look too sturdy. How long before the plastic handle pulls off?
 
Well, we all get it a bit wrong now and then, at least I can laugh it away.
Yeah. I hear ya Andy... What was it Tommy Copper would say, as he pressed a teabag on his victim, "here, have a drink on me!"
I'll get a box of PG Tips in then 😝
Seriously, many thanks to all, I'll do my bit to repay, even just as forum tea lad.
 
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