custom cables

michipons

michipons

Hero member
Location
Palma de Mallorca
Hi all, and merry Christmas, new year and so on.. :LOL:

I found myself several times looking at my throttle cable/hoses, clutch cables, choke... thinking, now is the time to change them, but forgot to order them, or Wolfang forgot it in the box, or whatsover, then I think it can't be very difficult to do it myself. Cutting cable and hoses is fairly easy, and using solderless nipples is also easy, but most of the times soldering is needed, specially for the handle terminals of the carb terminals, or the 1-2 junction boxes.

There is when it start to get more complex, or at least looks so when looking a bit aroung on the web. I found this article: http://www.vintagebikebuilder.com/building-cables.html

Nipples, cable and hoses are easy to find in Venhill, but apparently the flux used and the torch are also important... I don't know, any of you has made the experience of making his own custom cables?? Any idea where to find the proper flux, torch or nipple stock apart from Venhill?? (Venhill does not provide soldering equipment for those cables)

SRA: https://sra-solder.com/ is a great source, but it is in US, which makes shipping complicated as the flux is not allowed to be transported by air!

So, EU experience would be much appreciated!

Please, refrain yourself to say, "just buy the cable", I know I can do that, but I would like to try my own cables, because then they will have the length I want, at the moment I need them, the threads of the adjusters will not reach the end... and so on :LOL: It is frustrating when you have been waiting 2 months for a cable that eventually doesn't fit...

regards,
Miguel
 
Hi Miguel, I recently made the cables for my 1958 100 Sport. I used this company in Vienna: https://www.xmas1.at/
But this company in Germany could be the better source for you: https://www.bowdenzug24.de/
Ciao, Gert
 
lavgert said:
Hi Miguel, I recently made the cables for my 1958 100 Sport. I used this company in Vienna: https://www.xmas1.at/
But this company in Germany could be the better source for you: https://www.bowdenzug24.de/
Ciao, Gert
Click to expand...

Hi Gert!

Did you order them custom made or did you do it yourself buying them the parts?

Regards!
Miguel
 
helicopterjim said:
"The origin and invention of the Bowden Cable is open to some dispute, confusion and myth."

The things you learn can bring so much joy.

Jim
Click to expand...

Well, there you are and now there's Brexit as well.

Paul
 
Sourcing every cable from a Laverda specialist can be a pain, and I gave up on the total and complete ineptitude of getting cables made by local suppliers.  I mean, it really is not rocket science, there is an outer length (not so critical, +/- 10-20mm often ok), and a required difference in length between outer and inner (moderately critical, but still +/- 2mm is easily enough).  Several times I got cables back which were just hilariously wrong, by 10-20mm on the inner length so they were beyond the generous adjustment range and either did not reach or did not actuate.

I bought a length of throttle/choke cable and clutch cable sized outer/inners and a packet of assorted end fittings.  Since I only make them very occasionally, I made a very basic solder pot which was as simple as drilling a blind hole in the end of a piece of stainless steel which I just clamp in the vice.  I have used 'Eutectic 157' solder for many years at work for various soft soldering purposes and just used that for my cables.  I have not made brake cables but the clutch is pretty heavily loaded and I have not had a failure in those.  I would probably think twice on brake cables for the drummers though, and get those from a known high quality supplier like Venhill or similar.  Probably no real reason and the home made ones would be fine, but well, definitely a life-on-the-line component there so worth a small wait as long as the cable supplier is a known quantity.

To solder I just cut up a bunch of pieces of solder and drop into the 'bucket' of the solder pot, then warm it up with a MAP gas torch to melt it into a pool - not too hot.  Prepare the cable end, splaying the cable fibres out, then dip into flux, then dip into the molten solder.  It really is that simple.  Very convenient, satisfying and super easy.
 
breganzane said:
Sourcing every cable from a Laverda specialist can be a pain, and I gave up on the total and complete ineptitude of getting cables made by local suppliers.  I mean, it really is not rocket science, there is an outer length (not so critical, +/- 10-20mm often ok), and a required difference in length between outer and inner (moderately critical, but still +/- 2mm is easily enough).  Several times I got cables back which were just hilariously wrong, by 10-20mm on the inner length so they were beyond the generous adjustment range and either did not reach or did not actuate.

I bought a length of throttle/choke cable and clutch cable sized outer/inners and a packet of assorted end fittings.  Since I only make them very occasionally, I made a very basic solder pot which was as simple as drilling a blind hole in the end of a piece of stainless steel which I just clamp in the vice.  I have used 'Eutectic 157' solder for many years at work for various soft soldering purposes and just used that for my cables.  I have not made brake cables but the clutch is pretty heavily loaded and I have not had a failure in those.  I would probably think twice on brake cables for the drummers though, and get those from a known high quality supplier like Venhill or similar.  Probably no real reason and the home made ones would be fine, but well, definitely a life-on-the-line component there so worth a small wait as long as the cable supplier is a known quantity.

To solder I just cut up a bunch of pieces of solder and drop into the 'bucket' of the solder pot, then warm it up with a MAP gas torch to melt it into a pool - not too hot.  Prepare the cable end, splaying the cable fibres out, then dip into flux, then dip into the molten solder.  It really is that simple.  Very convenient, satisfying and super easy.
Click to expand...

thanks for the links, boudenzug24 sounds like the right place, they have all related items.

I am still unsure about the soldering processes... as I have seen many different opinions on the web. Some people say you need to use a very specific torch...

Breganzane, when you submerge the nipple in the "eutectic" bath, I guess all the nipple gets a coat of this soler material... doesn't it get then too thick? do you have to trim it afterwards?

Miguel
 
I just found this, it is just a part of a longer explanation, but I don't get it, may be it is an idiomatic problem:

"Heat the cable slowly and carefully. Start with the flame about six inches away and move in slowly heating only the cable. Do not expose the nipple or fitting to direct heat and be careful not to overheat the cable - it can happen fast!  If the  cable glows red or becomes sooty, you will have to trim both the outer and inner cable and start over (that?s if you have enough room left on the cable). That?s why I suggest you practice on a bit of the leftover cable first. Ideally, you should heat the cable to around 180 degrees. Do not heat the nipple. Observe what happens to the flux. As it starts to bubble, touch the tip of the solder to the nipple and the flux should immediately draw the solder in. Let the solder cool completely for a few minutes before you attempt to touch it."

with a couple of photos would be clear... but in this explanation the nipple is not submerged in the soldering material...??

Miguel
 
michipons said:
Some people say you need to use a very specific torch...
Click to expand...

Any butane gas torch will do, such as the MAP gas torch that Steve (Breganzane) uses. The only kind of torch you shouldn't use is an oxy/acetylene (or any other type of oxy/fuel mixture) because the flame is way too hot. It'll melt the steel cable in a fraction of a second.

Having said that, I have used an oxy/acetylene torch to solder cables in the past because that's all I had on hand. But you have to be very careful not to get too much heat on the work. Basically just wave the torch briefly across the cable from the other side of the room!

I suppose you could use a kerosene blow lamp if you could find one in an antique shop. I have one hanging on the wall of the shed as an ornament.  :D
 
Dellortoman said:
Any butane gas torch will do, such as the MAP gas torch that Steve (Breganzane) uses. The only kind of torch you shouldn't use is an oxy/acetylene (or any other type of oxy/fuel mixture) because the flame is way too hot. It'll melt the steel cable in a fraction of a second.

Having said that, I have used an oxy/acetylene torch to solder cables in the past because that's all I had on hand. But you have to be very careful not to get too much heat on the work. Basically just wave the torch briefly across the cable from the other side of the room!

I suppose you could use a kerosene blow lamp if you could find one in an antique shop. I have one hanging on the wall of the shed as an ornament.  :D
Click to expand...

but do you also use the bath methode? because in that case... i don't understand, as you are not directly heating neither the cable nor the nipple!? :-\
 
"Sourcing every cable from a Laverda specialist can be a pain, and I gave up on the total and complete ineptitude of getting cables made by local suppliers.  I mean, it really is not rocket science, there is an outer length (not so critical, +/- 10-20mm often ok), and a required difference in length between outer and inner (moderately critical, but still +/- 2mm is easily enough).  Several times I got cables back which were just hilariously wrong, by 10-20mm on the inner length so they were beyond the generous adjustment range and either did not reach or did not actuate."

Your not wrong there Steve. I had the same problem with a push/pull  throttle cables I had made by Flexi Drive. Sent them back as they were unusable, inner length way to long
Came back still too long but closer so with some spacers I managed to fit them. I even gave them a detailed drawing!!. The pull only lasted a couple of thousand kays before breaking. Only cables I found available were motion pro but they were way too long and fouled with fairing brackets. The Oz supplier is currently out of stock of Venhill Kits and the Poms want more for postage than the cost of the kit!!, so I brought a couple of inner wires with nipple attached one end and an assortment of nipples for the other end to use with the flexi drive outers. Problem then was the nipple sizes were 8mm and I need 6. Managed to file down the fixed nipple and turned a couple of brass nipples for the other end. This is where a solder pot is a better option than using a small flame as some of the solder flowed down the cable about 10mm below the nipple. At the moment it works but not sure for how long so will carry the spare Motion Pro in the mean time till I get the Venhill kits and make a solder pot. I just used resin core solder and Bakers Fluid.
I noticed that the fixed nipples seemed to be cast onto the wire using a soft metal so have thought about making a mold to do the same for the other end. Any idea what that metal would be? but really a solder pot is all one needs. You can buy them on ebay for less than 20bucks. Make your own, they're the right length  and if they break you only have yourself to blame.

Miguel post update, I tried not to heat the wire, just the nipple. Figured if the wire gets too hot the solder will flow where it's not suppose to. Like what happened to mine and I was paying attention to not have the solder go pass the nipple into the wire. Hence the solder pot.
 
michipons said:
but do you also use the bath methode? because in that case... i don't understand, as you are not directly heating neither the cable nor the nipple!? :-\
Click to expand...

You can use either method. Whatever works for you.

I have a solder pot but I usually don't bother with it if I'm only doing one cable end. The pot takes a while to get hot and uses a heap of solder to get a sufficient depth to submerge the cable nipple. If you're making up a bunch of cables, then a pot is a useful thing. But if you're only doing one solder job, it's quicker and easier to just use a torch, flux and resin cored solder. The solder will wick into the cable OK without using a pot.
 
so, I see 2 different technics, soldering in a bath where the nipple and cable are submerged, and the heating the cable? in that case... how do you hold the nipple in place? what about the risk of burning the hose which is just a couple of cm away? when soldering electric wiring, the isolation sometimes get hot very quick, even before the solder melts....
 
motoddrob said:
"Sourcing every cable from a Laverda specialist can be a pain, and I gave up on the total and complete ineptitude of getting cables made by local suppliers.  I mean, it really is not rocket science, there is an outer length (not so critical, +/- 10-20mm often ok), and a required difference in length between outer and inner (moderately critical, but still +/- 2mm is easily enough).  Several times I got cables back which were just hilariously wrong, by 10-20mm on the inner length so they were beyond the generous adjustment range and either did not reach or did not actuate."

Your not wrong there Steve. I had the same problem with a push/pull  throttle cables I had made by Flexi Drive. Sent them back as they were unusable, inner length way to long
Came back still too long but closer so with some spacers I managed to fit them. I even gave them a detailed drawing!!. The pull only lasted a couple of thousand kays before breaking. Only cables I found available were motion pro but they were way too long and fouled with fairing brackets. The Oz supplier is currently out of stock of Venhill Kits and the Poms want more for postage than the cost of the kit!!, so I brought a couple of inner wires with nipple attached one end and an assortment of nipples for the other end to use with the flexi drive outers. Problem then was the nipple sizes were 8mm and I need 6. Managed to file down the fixed nipple and turned a couple of brass nipples for the other end. This is where a solder pot is a better option than using a small flame as some of the solder flowed down the cable about 10mm below the nipple. At the moment it works but not sure for how long so will carry the spare Motion Pro in the mean time till I get the Venhill kits and make a solder pot. I just used resin core solder and Bakers Fluid.
I noticed that the fixed nipples seemed to be cast onto the wire using a soft metal so have thought about making a mold to do the same for the other end. Any idea what that metal would be? but really a solder pot is all one needs. You can buy them on ebay for less than 20bucks. Make your own, they're the right length  and if they break you only have yourself to blame.

Miguel post update, I tried not to heat the wire, just the nipple. Figured if the wire gets too hot the solder will flow where it's not suppose to. Like what happened to mine and I was paying attention to not have the solder go pass the nipple into the wire. Hence the solder pot.
Click to expand...

mmh I see, very interesting! then I will go via soldering pot! looks easier also!

At Bowdenzug24, they talked about pressed zinc metal when they do it inhouse for custom cables, as beeing the strongest connection and possibility of very different shapes, they also sell the machinery for that, but that would be going too far :LOL: i guess this is what you mean. Check their web, they have much more stock on nipples and equipment for cables at very fair prices!

Miguel
 
Wow. So many questions.  :D

Overheating the cable outer is not an issue. Pull the cable through so the end you're soldering is as far from the outer sheath as possible.

As for holding the nipple in place while you solder it, if you flare out the individual wire filaments at the end of the cable, the nipple can't fall off and it'll make a stronger joint when soldered. Just hold the cable with the end pointed down while you solder it and the nipple will stay put. Don't move the cable until the solder has solidified.

It's not difficult. Once you've practiced on a few scraps of cable, you'll get the hang of it.
 
Dellortoman said:
Wow. So many questions.  :D

Overheating the cable outer is not an issue. Pull the cable through so the end you're soldering is as far from the outer sheath as possible.

As for holding the nipple in place while you solder it, if you flare out the individual wire filaments at the end of the cable, the nipple can't fall off and it'll make a stronger joint when soldered. Just hold the cable with the end pointed down while you solder it and the nipple will stay put. Don't move the cable until the solder has solidified.

It's not difficult. Once you've practiced on a few scraps of cable, you'll get the hang of it.
Click to expand...

Ok, so you go for technic 2... heating the wire :LOL: I guess both are ok, for me the soldering pot looks just easier, sometimes when soldering electrics I see my self burning my hand while holding the cables and the tin as solid as... well, solid :LOL:

What about soldering material? I guess tin is not apropiate?

Miguel
 
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