disaster strikes -- stuck cam bucket

[Storm]

Try drilling and then tapping a thread through the top of the bucket. Hopefully a bolt screwed into it will now push it out.

 

[3patC]

Must have been a 70s calender then

Hey when I was wandering through one of the small out of the way offices at work a while ago I espied an old 70's calendar hanging up there, it fairly smacked me in the eye. Every month was a joy to look at. No one ever looked at the date on them anyway. I'm a great fan of the vintage snatch.

 

[a14rgs]

I'm a great fan of the vintage snatch.

Not to be sniffed at
Pat, have you tried opening a cheese toastie....? :-X

[Off topic? Where??!]

 

[RichardJ]

I have been following this thread as the same thing has happened to my 500 and I thought might get an insight into what may have caused the problem.
Part of my thinking is that I have been using the wrong oil. I am using Mobil Super which is a modern oil but mineral not synthetic, but I have recently found that modern oils have reduced zinc/phosphorus due to the harm that this does to catalytic converters. according to this article, this additive is essential to prevent wear to cams etc.  But I expect you lot already knoew this.

http://www.classiccars4sale.net/classic-car-how-to-guides/feature-articles/a-guide-to-classic-oils

 

[AndyW]

Interesting article.. I've been using diesel orientated (detergent) oils in many of my bikes for quite a while with no ill effect. An engine machinist locally reminded me that almost all commercially available oils these days are detergent oils to some extent so I elected for Penrite 20/60 in my bikes (and old Toyota 60 series) due to the 'added' Zinc content..

 

[redax5]

Part of my thinking is that I have been using the wrong oil. I am using Mobil Super which is a modern oil but mineral not synthetic, but I have recently found that modern oils have reduced zinc/phosphorus due to the harm that this does to catalytic converters. according to this article, this additive is essential to prevent wear to cams etc.  But I expect you lot already knoew this.

majority of motorcycle specific oils do contain Zinc as motorcycles at this stage do not use Cat converters, it should be specified on the packaging
we always use specific motorcycle oil that is formulated for air cooled engines thus has the ability to run at higher temperatures and that also has added extra Zinc, example, Penrite MC-4ST 20W-60 Premimum Mineral oil
once the engine is run in (1000 klms) we have no issue with changing to full or semi synthetic oil as long as it still contains the added Zinc product

 

[Preben]

I have recently bought a Formula 500 which also had 2 seized buckets due to an engine failure  on Anderstorp racetrack many years ago. I put the cylinderhead in the Owen and heated it up and the seized buckets just fell out of the head, due to the aluminium head expanding more as the steel bucket. Perhaps you could be as lucky as I was getting the seized buckets out.


Regards

Preben

 

[beauchemin]

I am using Kawasaki M4 20W/50, which is a mineral oil which meets JASO 4T MA.

 

[Paul LeClair]

car speed shops often stock Comp Cams 15W 150 "Break In" Oil which has a bunch of added ZDDP,
http://www.compcams.com/Products/CC-'Lubricants'-2.aspx
or Muscle Car oil, also fortified with ZDDP. Additionally, parts suppliers for old British cars, like Moss Motors and similar, carry ZDDP additive to put in with your regular oil.
http://www.mossmotors.com/Shop/ViewProducts.aspx?PlateIndexID=65949

and Red, my 2008 Kawasaki ZX 14 came new with THREE catalytic convertors, one in the header, and one in each of the two mufflers. I had to section the header and each of the mufflers with a band saw to get the cats out, then re weld........

Paul LeClair

 

[Dellortoman]

I had to section the header and each of the mufflers with a band saw to get the cats out ...

So you now have stray cats in your garage?

 

[NickNZ]

It used to sound like a strangled cat, but now it goes like a cut cat?

 

[beauchemin]

I have finally found time to remove the engine from the frame, and today removed the head from the engine.

Here is my rig for lifting the engine.

This "park-n-move" came in handy.  It allowed me to easily push the chassis out of the way once the motor was lifted.

 

[beauchemin]

Here is a close-up of the head.  The bucket is seriously jammed.

Here you can see the piston tops. You can see how the #3 piston has a pattern of burnt oil on the top.  There is also a layer of burnt oil around the top of the cylinder wall.  There are some faint marks where the exhaust valve hit the valve pocket in the top of the piston, but it appears to be very minor.  I couldn't get the camera to show the marks, as they were so faint.

 

[Dellortoman]

I assume the valve is bent so you can't push the bucket back by applying force to the valve head. You'll probably only break the valve guide and do more damage. The bucket is knackered anyway, so you my as well weld a nut on the top and whack it out with a sliding hammer. Put plenty of weld around the nut so it'll hopefully shrink the bucket.

 

[phil37]

Hi Chris - Your engine lift looks very strong - but immoveable. I 've put this up before - but I use a personnel lift that I bought at a car boot sale for ?45 - lifts 125Kg. - regards - Phil

 

[2622]

Phil always wondered did you clean the bench for the photo shoot, sure wish mine was that clean and organised.

 

[Grant]

That's the operating theatre in the hospital where he nicked the biddy hoist. 

 

[2622]

Ah makes sense Grant now I understand thanks for clearing that one up.

 

[phil37]

Phil always wondered did you clean the bench for the photo shoot, sure wish mine was that clean and organised.

I,m not the tidiest of workers - just lucky that I'd not long finished this workshop 

 

[sonicboom500]

Wouldn't the circular pattern to the bucket depression suggest that the bucket was still free to rotate as normal for some time after a valve
seizure then distorted and jammed?

I'm not an engineer so make the explanation simple.