Early triple primary oiling

There's the solution John. You need to put butcher's paper between the plates. :)

I'm familiar with the issue Vince is referring to with flat surfaces being hard to separate. It's a fluid mechanics affect. If there's a thin layer of liquid between the plates, surface tension will tend to hold them together. Sheets of corrugated roofing iron are a bastard to separate if the stack has been left out in the rain and water has wicked in between the sheets. But it also happens to a lesser extent when dry because air has surface tension too, although the effect is less than with liquids.

I'm not sure that hydraulic surface tension effect is what's going on with clutch plates though. Otherwise every clutch would stick every time. Anyway, the plates have grooves in them to eliminate hydraulic adhesion.

My uneducated guess is that the sticking is actually some kind of chemical adhesion, perhaps due to chemical changes in the plate material when it gets hot from friction. Maybe microscopic particles detach from the friction material and react with the oil to form some kind of sticky muck. All I know is that a set of new plates can eliminate the problem. But I've not heard of anyone fixing it with a change of oil.

I can recommend Red's Kevlar plates from personal experience. They never stick and they have high friction so the clutch is less likely to slip.
 
The start of this thread had to do with the negligible oiling of the primary side on older triples if the chain case is emptied. Solution is to lean the machine way over after the primary case has been removed.

This issue apart, from my experience, a sticking clutch is oil related. I've only had the problem once when I used an oil destined for cars.
Going back to my usual oil after having cleaned the clutch plates in trichloroethylene, cured the problem.

Paul
 
Tah Vince, in the collection of many parts over the years had a "drilled" outer clutch housing, not sure what engine that part is or was on, these days. Gladdened to read you had a win with your clutch not sticking. Many the time i thought you the most unlucky Laverda owner have met, cannot have bad luck all your life, not possible, a wry smile here. You would think that a sliding action of clutch plates would have the best chance of breaking a negative pressure adhesion between moving parts inside a Laverda clutch. The clutch "restuck" within 24 hours after dismantling the whole clutch, been in the shed now with the clutch lever pulled back to the bar. Have to disassemble the clutch assembly again as missed a shim install on the inner section of the outer clutch hub, inner thingie on the outer thingie... wince and a smile. j.
 
Ok Cam, another useful process of thought, indeed the pressure or surface tension seems unlikely, as it would be a stuck clutch every time it re-engages, as you indicate and also my thought, though you have Pauls input on his experience with oil and effect on clutch proper operations.... in my case it made little difference, oiled plates and dry plates stuck equally as bad as each other on mechanical separation prising apart. Would of course point to materials used in OEM clutch ( mine is oem as i can best attest ) being the culprit, as Reds best engineered product suffers not from this sticking. Oh and very witty, butchers paper quip... no flies stuck on you, or is that a butchers paper pair of overalls your wearing.... groan.... wince... j.
 
In the end, between measuring oil level after having switched off engine rather than cold, and after having left the bike tilted to the left with the footrest propped up against bits of wood, it's a massive 800cc of oil needed to bring it up to the top level on the dipstick where it was yesterday morning.

Paul
What was the total volume of oil that ended up in the engine Paul????
 
What was the total volume of oil that ended up in the engine Paul????
No idea Maurice. I'd filled the engine and measured cold. Top mark on the stick. Used the bike, it stayed there.
Then I ran the engine and measured just after cutting it. Another 400 cc went in to bring oil up to the top mark.
Then I leant the bike over to the left for an hour, put it back on its stand and filled with oil until it was on the top mark. Another 400 cc. No idea how much oil is in there.
I ran the bike this morning. All clutch problems have gone. It's working perfectly.

Paul
 
That will be good for resale

Weren’t you his making fun of someone that put a sight glass in a primary cover a while ago? Seems now like he was ahead of the game so to speak
 
I know I'm late to the party ... on the topic though and what does concern me is that if the primary does get little oil, then how do the needle bearings on the primary and lay shaft get sufficient lubrication?

An out of the blue comment maybe, but when I last pulled the LH cover (for clutch issues) I noticed some discolouration on the lay shaft bearing surface.

My guess is that a PO had assembled the case dry. All I'm saying is that there is a lot in there aside from the chain ... and it's likely the most resilient to poor lubrication.
 
I know I'm late to the party ... on the topic though and what does concern me is that if the primary does get little oil, then how do the needle bearings on the primary and lay shaft get sufficient lubrication?

An out of the blue comment maybe, but when I last pulled the LH cover (for clutch issues) I noticed some discolouration on the lay shaft bearing surface.

My guess is that a PO had assembled the case dry. All I'm saying is that there is a lot in there aside from the chain ... and it's likely the most resilient to poor lubrication.
Yes.

Paul
 
Ok, update: Mine is a '76 model. As per My oil refill thread
I changed the oil, yesterday.
The dipstick showed about a quarter above the bottom mark. It wasn't a filter cleaning oil change.
I drained about 230cc from the clutch case, via the primary chain adjuster (see pic.).
In total, according to my oil can (see pic.) about 2 litres came out. 2.5 litres filled it to the top mark.
After a run, it took about 250cc to fill it back to the top mark.
So,it would appear, mine refills the clutch case quickly.
I didn't have time to pop the case off, this time, but I'll try to get in there and take a photo of where the hole is, and how big.
I don't have a prop stand and the only leaning it did was in the bends.IMG_4654.JPGIMG_4656.JPG
 
Ok, update: Mine is a '76 model. As per My oil refill thread
I changed the oil, yesterday.
The dipstick showed about a quarter above the bottom mark. It wasn't a filter cleaning oil change.
I drained about 230cc from the clutch case, via the primary chain adjuster (see pic.).
In total, according to my oil can (see pic.) about 2 litres came out. 2.5 litres filled it to the top mark.
After a run, it took about 250cc to fill it back to the top mark.
So,it would appear, mine refills the clutch case quickly.
I didn't have time to pop the case off, this time, but I'll try to get in there and take a photo of where the hole is, and how big.
I don't have a prop stand and the only leaning it did was in the bends.View attachment 64336View attachment 64337
I drained 30cc from my 3C after a few hundred km and with a high volume oil pump.
Paul
 
Here is what happens when the desire to oil the primary over the health of the valve train.... left item is when a cleverman decided to linish the radius off the top of cam follower, 'mazing how a laverda will get you home, Canberra to Bowral, the clatter was considerable. Right side, complete low rpm oil starvation from the idiot hole on the oil pump take off vertical gallery....

Hello Bruce, sure the lads will clear up early triple time line.... j
 

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Here is what happens when the desire to oil the primary over the health of the valve train.... left item is when a cleverman decided to linish the radius off the top of cam follower, 'mazing how a laverda will get you home, Canberra to Bowral, the clatter was considerable. Right side, complete low rpm oil starvation from the idiot hole on the oil pump take off vertical gallery....

Hello Bruce, sure the lads will clear up early triple time line.... j
Apparently, early triple pumps are devoid of idiot hole.
In fact, they're devoid of nearly all means of oiling the primary side.

Paul
 
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