Engine & frame #s
- Thread starter Evan
- Start date
breganzane
Hero member
- Location
- NSW Australia
If you're comfortable posting a pic of the engine/frame numbers (or post to someone privately) we can opine on whether they've been re-stamped. It's very hard to get stamps to look exactly the same as the factory used, most re-stampings are pretty obvious.
Shajota
Hero member
- Location
- Whitsundays Qld
Interestingly JLO's registry lists a group (well 4, but all together!) of bikes close to your numbers all designated as "GT"
Perhaps a group of GT's produced around the time of the transition to SF2(?)
Perhaps a group of GT's produced around the time of the transition to SF2(?)
breganzane
Hero member
- Location
- NSW Australia
Interesting. The Ian Faloon book says GT's were built 1972-75, numbers in the 4000 thru 16000 range approx. Also mentions that "during 73 and 74 some frames carried the LAV750F designation" (same as SF). So sounds like it's quite probably exactly as it looks, a late GT with an SF stamp.
breganzane
Hero member
- Location
- NSW Australia
If it's what I'm thinking, the US VIN plate was issued and attached by the US DOT or whatever. Laverda never fitted a frame plate, only the stamped number next to the swingarm pivot. GT's appear to have had just LAV750*12345*, while the SF's had LAV750F*12345*. The Faloon book says some late GT's (in your number sequence) had 750F designation frames.
If the frame with a 750F designation had been homologated with DOT as an SF, try telling an intractable govt official that it's actually a GT but has the frame designation of an SF... "Nope, it says F so it's an SF and that's what has to go on the plate, paperwork says so".
Seems like it from here anyway. Photos would help.
If the frame with a 750F designation had been homologated with DOT as an SF, try telling an intractable govt official that it's actually a GT but has the frame designation of an SF... "Nope, it says F so it's an SF and that's what has to go on the plate, paperwork says so".
Seems like it from here anyway. Photos would help.
Exmoor beast
Hero member
- Location
- Minehead,Somerset, ENGLAND OF COURSE
I’ve got some Kuwait Police cranckcases In the 19000’s -GTL
arancia
Senior member
- Location
- Arizona, USA
Based on what we've heard, it's almost certainly a US model "GTF", I have the same, frame is SF, US identity plate on headstock says "750 SF", engine cases stamped "GT", matching numbers a few later than Evan's.
It would have come with SF brakes and frame hence the F in GTF, GT style fuel tank, squarer section mudguards, etc. though somebody in the interim could have put SF mudguards, tank, etc on.
It would have come with SF brakes and frame hence the F in GTF, GT style fuel tank, squarer section mudguards, etc. though somebody in the interim could have put SF mudguards, tank, etc on.
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Jo
Hero member
- Location
- Cologne, NRW Germany
Hi Phil,
IIRC squarer section mudguards disappeared altogether after 1972 on GTs. So in particular with the frame # mentioned by Evan I'd suppose it was equipped with round ones by the factory ...
Cheers,
Jo
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Not quite.
German market bikes came with a frame plate rivetted to the RH side of the frame headstock. The same plate was used through the tenure of 3, maybe 4, different importers, so most likely applied by the factory to comply with german regulations of the time, that also required the frame # to be stamped to the headstock as well. Therefore, Kraut bikes are very easy to identify.
I'd suspect the "F" has something to do with that "freni" thing...
A pic of the frame top engine mounts would tell if it is basically a S/GT or a SF.
piet
arancia
Senior member
- Location
- Arizona, USA
I'm looking at the bike parked in my garage that I'm calling a GTF.
GT stamped on the lower engine case, 3 matching numbers with April 74 on the headstock plate, GT style squarer section mudguards and with shrouded forks but lowers not painted, later SF parallel lever drum brakes, Smith's instruments, VHB carbs, GT style tank with rack and kneepads, "S" style side panels but without badges, crash bar and rear carrier rack, Lucas switches, CEV turn signals, later pair of horns, early style headlight with switch in the top .
Perhaps it was assembled from bits before I acquired it but it looks just like the photo in the owners book inside front cover except that one does not have Lucas switches and it has single horn, and mine does not have slash cut mufflers or the accessory bags and the seat has been recovered, otherwise identical to that photo - I presume details varied slightly batch to batch as parts suppliers changed.
That owners book, without date but showing the SF2 single disk model, in its parts list does show different frame part numbers for GT and SF models but the stamped numbers run vertically on both in contrast to the early GT frames where the frame number stamping is horizontal. Top engine mount points on this GTF are like the earliest GT and S frames with the short straight lower front tube welded at the front engine mount where the later frames have a continuous bent tube, this one does not have the F suffix on the frame number LAV750 stamping.
GT stamped on the lower engine case, 3 matching numbers with April 74 on the headstock plate, GT style squarer section mudguards and with shrouded forks but lowers not painted, later SF parallel lever drum brakes, Smith's instruments, VHB carbs, GT style tank with rack and kneepads, "S" style side panels but without badges, crash bar and rear carrier rack, Lucas switches, CEV turn signals, later pair of horns, early style headlight with switch in the top .
Perhaps it was assembled from bits before I acquired it but it looks just like the photo in the owners book inside front cover except that one does not have Lucas switches and it has single horn, and mine does not have slash cut mufflers or the accessory bags and the seat has been recovered, otherwise identical to that photo - I presume details varied slightly batch to batch as parts suppliers changed.
That owners book, without date but showing the SF2 single disk model, in its parts list does show different frame part numbers for GT and SF models but the stamped numbers run vertically on both in contrast to the early GT frames where the frame number stamping is horizontal. Top engine mount points on this GTF are like the earliest GT and S frames with the short straight lower front tube welded at the front engine mount where the later frames have a continuous bent tube, this one does not have the F suffix on the frame number LAV750 stamping.
The numbers would be interesting.
The specs of the bikes supplied by Laverda varied according to which market or importer they were supplying.
I have a GT with a number somewhere around 22... Round mudguards, later type frame, Laverda drums, metal shrouded forks. Italian market model. I have another GT with a later number, square mudguards, first type frame, Grimeca brakes. French market model.
Once again, no strict relation between specs and date of supposed manufacture.
Paul
arancia
Senior member
- Location
- Arizona, USA
15557
Photo taken with rear carrier removed for measuring/replication otherwise as it was when I acquired it with non-original mufflers and shocks and its seat recovered, except "750" tank badges installed by me, originally had later style badges without "750".
Looks like the original paint was a deeper red, has the original style air cleaner element under the longitudinal battery mount, later style taillight with lens reflectors required for US market
(and yes I do know it's missing a dynamo belt cover bolt and needs a thorough cleaning and polish!)
Photo taken with rear carrier removed for measuring/replication otherwise as it was when I acquired it with non-original mufflers and shocks and its seat recovered, except "750" tank badges installed by me, originally had later style badges without "750".
Looks like the original paint was a deeper red, has the original style air cleaner element under the longitudinal battery mount, later style taillight with lens reflectors required for US market
(and yes I do know it's missing a dynamo belt cover bolt and needs a thorough cleaning and polish!)
Are you certain that the bike is "as sold and imported"?
It's less than 300 numbers before my SF2.
Looks like Laverda had given up any hope for the American market and were selling of their old stock.
Paul
Why not? The GT remained in production until the GTL was introduced, starting somewhere in the high 17000. Looks highly original to me, the rear light and indicators perhaps being a requirement for the US. Wrong silencers though...
I have a very early SF2 with 35mm fork and twin discs with # 15569. This bike still carries the SF1 homologation number. I posess the original italian documents issued when the bike was first registered there, so am reasonably certain it is indeed one of the first SF2s.
piet