Engine & frame #s

[Paul Marx]

Why not? The GT remained in production until the GTL was introduced, starting somewhere in the high 17000. Looks highly original to me, the rear light and indicators perhaps being a requirement for the US. Wrong silencers though...

I have a very early SF2 with 35mm fork and twin discs with # 15569. This bike still carries the SF1 homologation number. I posess the original italian documents issued when the bike was first registered there, so am reasonably certain it is indeed one of the first SF2s.

piet

Yes, of course.
I was pointing out that GTs came equipped with round mudguards as from 1969 and that the rubber gaitered forks also came out in 69.

 

[sfcpiet]

Yes, of course.
I was pointing out that GTs came equipped with round mudguards as from 1969 and that the rubber gaitered forks also came out in 69.

I assume these out-of-the-norm bikes may have been built to special order. I haven't yet found a parts book showing gaitered forks or round guards for the GT model, these are only shown in the S catalogues. I have a quite early 1970-ish sales brochure showing a GT with gaiters (quite pleasing actually, masks a lot of the bikes old-fashionedness. The same brochure also shows a GT with shrouded fork.), but Grimeca brakes and square guards. I've never come across one for real, let alone one with round guards. If they truely came from the factory like that, they will be very rare birds indeed. I'd suspect much of this to be damage repair, most bikes have been thrown down the road a few times in their lifetime. While it's bent, why not "upgrade"? Common practice, to this day...

A friend owned a completely original late model GT (1974 iIrc) for many years, narrow GT frame, flip-up fuel cap, Laverda brakes, square guards and fork shrouds. He aquired it from the original owner that had bought the bike new, it came with very comprehensive paperwork, EVERY oil change and every blown light bulb was documented! No reason to suspect anything had been altered from stock.

piet

 

[LJ-2]

"A friend owned a completely original late model GT (1974 iIrc) for many years, narrow GT frame, flip-up fuel cap, Laverda brakes, square guards and fork shrouds.'

Same as mine ,GTF Marnix says with those specs and brakes.

 

[Paul Marx]

I assume these out-of-the-norm bikes may have been built to special order. I haven't yet found a parts book showing gaitered forks or round guards for the GT model, these are only shown in the S catalogues. I have a quite early 1970-ish sales brochure showing a GT with gaiters (quite pleasing actually, masks a lot of the bikes old-fashionedness. The same brochure also shows a GT with shrouded fork.), but Grimeca brakes and square guards. I've never come across one for real, let alone one with round guards. If they truely came from the factory like that, they will be very rare birds indeed. I'd suspect much of this to be damage repair, most bikes have been thrown down the road a few times in their lifetime. While it's bent, why not "upgrade"? Common practice, to this day...

A friend owned a completely original late model GT (1974 iIrc) for many years, narrow GT frame, flip-up fuel cap, Laverda brakes, square guards and fork shrouds. He aquired it from the original owner that had bought the bike new, it came with very comprehensive paperwork, EVERY oil change and every blown light bulb was documented! No reason to suspect anything had been altered from stock.

piet

I have a 1969 650, number is 1567 which has rubber gaitered forks. I presumed these to be unoriginal until Marnix showed me a photo of 1969 750s with....rubber gaitered forks.
I have two GT "projects", numbers 42 apart. One a French market bike 2312, the other an Italian registered bike 2270 abandoned in France with a blown left hand main bearing. Both have the wide frame, the metal shrouded forks, the French bike has square mudguards and Grimeca brakes, the Italian bike with the earlier number has Laverda brakes and round mudguards. I see no reason why the owner would change brakes front and rear and mudguards front and rear.
Interestingly, 1567 has a crankcase with one rib behind the block, 2312 has no ribs. The case of 2270 has 2 ribs but I suspect that the case originally had no ribs and was replaced following cracking since the number 2270 on the case has obviously been restamped.

I remain convinced that concerning 750s, wanting to link specs and production dates is an occupation for people wanting to write books for the enlightenment of future generations and the building of myths.

Paul

 

[MarnixSFC]

As far as I know, only the pre-production machines that were sent to the importers for homologation purposes had gaitered forks. Here’s a picture of the 2 machines Dutch importer Raymakers received. The first regular production bikes all had the shrouded forks.

Marnix

 

[sfcpiet]

The brochure bike clearly shows #144X, shrouded fork bike is illegable. Perhaps Breganze was experimenting as to which direction to turn at the time? The brochure was published/released by the then importer George Suck in Hamburg. The photos used are definitely from the factory, they appear in other publications as well. "Pre-production" sounds feasable.

If there was something like a true production run with these exceptions, there would surely be some sort of documentation to be found. Or at least a mention of available options in the parts books. But, nothing, nada...

Basic GT specs remained quite consistant throughout production, the major changes being the transition from the wide, garden-gate frame to the narrower type, but retaining head angle, differing upper engine mounts, wheelbase and frame height, and then the swap from Grimeca to Laverda brakes.

piet

 

[Paul Marx]

I shall remain dubious.

Paul

 

[Mark35]

The numbers would be interesting.
The specs of the bikes supplied by Laverda varied according to which market or importer they were supplying.
I have a GT with a number somewhere around 22... Round mudguards, later type frame, Laverda drums, metal shrouded forks. Italian market model. I have another GT with a later number, square mudguards, first type frame, Grimeca brakes. French market model.
Once again, no strict relation between specs and date of supposed manufacture.

Paul

Paul would this and be the same with a triple? I have a 3C with a frame and engine number 4644 but the spec is 100 per cent 3C. So once again is there no strict relation between specs and date of supposed manufacture.

 

[Paul Marx]

Paul would this and be the same with a triple? I have a 3C with a frame and engine number 4644 but the spec is 100 per cent 3C. So once again is there no strict relation between specs and date of supposed manufacture.

It's particularly true with the early twins. Numbering gets more chronological as time goes by, with exceptions.
If I am to believe the French press of the time, the 3C was offered as an option alongside the 3CL at the beggining.

The only ones who have perfect matches are those writing books.
A book full of "We don't know" doesn't go down well with a lot of readers.

Paul

 

[Mark35]

It's particularly true with the early twins. Numbering gets more chronological as time goes by, with exceptions.
If I am to believe the French press of the time, the 3C was offered as an option alongside the 3CL at the beggining.

The only ones who have perfect matches are those writing books.
A book full of "We don't know" doesn't go down well with a lot of readers.

Paul

Thanks Paul! I think you are absolutely spot on ! and undoubtedly 3Cs would have overlapped with the 3CL especially perhaps if there was a customer request for the older model.
Best wishes. Mark

 

[pf1]

Thanks Paul! I think you are absolutely spot on ! and undoubtedly 3Cs would have overlapped with the 3CL especially perhaps if there was a customer request for the older model.
Best wishes. Mark

The late batch of 3C's have the indentation in the frame rail where the seat lock goes on the 3CL. The earlier bikes don't have that.

 

[Paul Marx]

The late batch of 3C's have the indentation in the frame rail where the seat lock goes on the 3CL. The earlier bikes don't have that.

There's even some 3C frames with provision for the rear brake, drum remember, on the right, and high numbers.
Paul