Engine out advice

P

paulincayman

Hero member
Location
Cayman Islands
Hi all,
I am about to attempt to remove the engine  from the frame.. 3CL . I have the cylinders and pistons off and down to a bare rolling frame as I  have to get thing out of the shed to do this.  I was going to try laying it on its side and lift the frame off the engine..first time for this and will be alone so before I got myself into a jam I thought I should check if there were any special tips or techniques to be applied. Is it easier from one side of the other..? When to remove bolts etc.
TIA.
Paul
 
Will probably be doing the same next week, only the top end is staying on.
I have a winch under the roof so should make it easier.

Paul
 
How did you get the cyliders off..think can be done by bending studs  but not recommended..do you have the Green book? Might be helpful though pricey
 
nick7 said:
How did you get the cyliders off..think can be done by bending studs  but not recommended..do you have the Green book? Might be helpful though pricey
Click to expand...
Hi,
  It is described in the factory green book , you have to remove the long studs first, there is one that will not clear the frame until you start to move the head, I think it is next to the cam chain tunnel RHS , #3 cylinder I think, but will be dead obvious..also had the cams out before starting .
Just a bit of wiggling  towards rear and sideways , the remaining studs make it look impossible and  a couple of them do bind a little on the frame  but just tight not bending.. I was wondering how the heck is this going to work? and then there it was. 
All the best
Paul
 
Just remember to put those studs back in the right way around. ;) Spending a few drops of loctite on the case threads before inserting the studs might be a good thing as well.
Personally, I do not like the studs out method for getting head/barrels off, think it will add unnneccesary wear on the highly stressed case threads. Would always prefer engine out for that reason.

Regards,
Stefan
 
you are certainly right on that one Stephane, but these days, with very thin top ring of (is it?) 0.75mm thickness the studs have to be gone for you to have any chance of getting the block over the pistons and rings without breaking the top one, don't ask me how I know!
CLEM
 
Clem, I might have been lucky last time on that one, as I got a set of NOS Mondials from OCT, still bearing the old fashioned ring sizes. However, I resorted anyway to inserting the pistons to the barrel first, and the put the barrel on the case. Then wrist pins and second circlips to go in finally, starting with the center cylinder. It still was fiddly without ends (getting the circlip in on center cylinder especially highlighted here >:D), and needed the helping hands of a mate, clearly remember that we sweared a lot doing this job  :D Might even one of the pistons slipped out the bore again, not sure anymore, it was far from ideal.

Regards,
Stefan
 
I may well be wrong, but isnt it the case that the studs are hot fitted or somesuch  so not designed to be removed and screwed back in? Even if that is not the case, i would have all timeserted rather than risk a thread strip on reassembly.
 
Yes Nick! There was a video kicking around at one time of the studs being fitted (all at once) by a special machine in the the factory.
The studs are screwed in with the crankcase nearly glowing it's so hot and one presumes studs are cold. So they will be beautifully tight and secure upon first fitting.

Personally I wouldn't be messing around taking studs out, there is the danger of refitting them upside down upon reassembly unless you take careful note of which end the long thread is - that is UNLESS I was going to get the crankcase threads 'Timeserted' at the same time of course!
 
Well I've just had to have most of my 3C studs timecerted and if they had been left alone in the first place it would probably have been unnecessary. It was a right mess and annoyed the hell out of me. Most of them were in upside down which is what made me take a closer look and it was a real mess. GCS sorted it for me.
 
Well, I am just about to take my engine to bits because of a single 9mm stud that has stripped. I have always known it was a 'wrong un' but the bike has always run fine apart from the fact that I have one to two recessed valves caused by my not doing my value clearances often enough. In one ear is a voice that says the stud hasn't caused any problems for the last 20 years so just get the head seen to (that does need doing) and leave them studs alone, it was fine before and will be fine in the future.

In my other ear is a voice that says that I should use this opportunity to sort that stud out once and for all before disaster strikes etc.

Still not sure which voice to heed so i have highjacked this thread to ask - any one have a view on this ?

Also, is it possible or 'not right' to time cert or helicoil just one stud without having to have them all done ? 
 
As far as I know, you don't need to touch the good threads but helicoils are no use and the threads in my crankcase had already been done with something similar. They broke up as the upside down studs were removed.
 
Rob said:
That may be so, but it can be done successfully. No Timeserts or Loctite needed either.
Click to expand...
Interestingly the studs are domed at the short end and flat at the long end. A spot of paint at the pre assembly stage should serve to jog my memory ..not anticipating too much grief here.
Paul
 
TheWrongTrousers said:
Well, I am just about to take my engine to bits because of a single 9mm stud that has stripped. I have always known it was a 'wrong un' but the bike has always run fine apart from the fact that I have one to two recessed valves caused by my not doing my value clearances often enough. In one ear is a voice that says the stud hasn't caused any problems for the last 20 years so just get the head seen to (that does need doing) and leave them studs alone, it was fine before and will be fine in the future.

In my other ear is a voice that says that I should use this opportunity to sort that stud out once and for all before disaster strikes etc.

Still not sure which voice to heed so i have highjacked this thread to ask - any one have a view on this ?

Also, is it possible or 'not right' to time cert or helicoil just one stud without having to have them all done ?
Click to expand...

I am no big fan of leaving a potential problem when you are at it anyway. What is the millage of the engine? For me, if I get the engine opened to a serious point (head of f.e.), I let the man of trust do what ever is necessary to not having to open the engine again in my lifetime.
 
I always Timecert all 9mm studs whenever I get the opportunity, It just makes life so much more simple to be able to screw them in and out at will with your fingers, that on its own is a good reason for doing it, I mean you can screw the tops nuts on and off with your fingers so why does anyone get hung up about Timecerted ones not "bottoming",  the next is that they have all been under tension, if the engine is assembled, for 40 years, you have to do "something" I have bought and fitted new studs as well, because they can lose their ability to clamp, ie linear spring tension.

I have learned the hard way and now this Timcerting is always done on either a mill, if I can get at one, or an ancient and massive drill press that I posses, turned by hand of course, drilling and countersinking excepted. It is so easy to get them away from bang on square to the gasket face, and as they are so long it just amplifies the error, even if its tiny.
CLEM
 
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