Gravity is not your friend

Apparently, ABS is often regarded as a cure-all for stupidity.  Sometimes, it even works out that way!

While it may prevent you from falling due to a panic stop in slippery conditions, it may in fact cause you to collide with the obstacle you were intending to avoid.  ABS will extract the best possible performance from your brake, but, under certain circumstances this may not be enough.  So, a fall or impact might be debatable!  While steering is still possible on a 4-wheeler while ABS is engaged, I seriously doubt a severe serve would be possible on a slippery surface with a 2-wheeler with the brakes blocking and releasing in quick sucession.  If you don't fall from the tyre letting go when travelling straight ahead, it will let go when side forces come into play.  No matter how many electronic helpers come into play, actual physics are hard to overcome.

Far more helpful than a load of electronics is experience and a defensive attitude in traffic, plus a generous helping of common sense.

piet
 
The problem is that there's 8 billion of us and they can't all be as good riders/drivers as we are.

ABS is now obligatory on all new bikes in France, so debate over.

Paul
 
I'm not saying ABS is a bad thing, it's just that it leads inexperienced riders (and drivers) to thinking they'll get away with irresponsible behaviour and defying physics.  It is NOT a substitute for actually learning how to ride/drive and brake.

I once helped a R1250GS rider out of a ditch.  He was obviously unhurt but shaken, claiming his bike was equipped with ABS, and how could that happen?  I just pointed to the gravel in the curve, commented ABS won't cure stupidity overcome physics and continued on my way, before he realised what I had said and hit me. :D

piet
 
I can still remember when the first cars were equipped with ABS/ALB. At that time, I had a part-time job as a student and one morning, it had freshly snowed,
I watched our managing director arrive at the company with his new BMW. The company was at a dead end, at the end he should've turned left. But he drove
straight ahead into a hedge.
He was completely speechless when he came up to the office, he couldn't understand it. This shouldn?t have happened, as his new car was equipped with magic ABS.
I tried to explain to him that ABS could not provide the same braking distances in low grip as in dry conditions. He came back to it several times as he just
couldn't understand it ...
??? 8)
 
My French niece crashed  quite  badly on a snowy road a few years ago, because she chose to overtake, instead of just continuing on the exposed two lines of tarmac and be satisfied, but no, she wanted to go faster in her rear wheel drive BMW, she crossed into the passing lane OK, and continued in the wheel tracks of that one, but when she had built up speed and attempted to cross back into the lane she had just left, the rear tyres span up and she did a 360 plus but more and the car she had just passed crashed into her, no one hurt fortunately, but both cars both wrecked hers with serious pillar damage (I recovered my nieces car a week later) the result, she thought that the crash was a lack of four wheel drive, so  guess what? she bought one, but its actually two wheel drive until you shift it to that mode and she doesn't know how to do that, and anyway the crash was caused primarily because she should have patiently followed, not attempted an overtake, and secondarily because she does not know what opposite lock is, and not belting the brake pedal to solve all ills, ABS or not, plus in that case probably good idea to keep a bit of power on.
CLEM
 
Clem, if she had been in a front wheel drive car she probably would have been ok. Rear wheelers can get away from you too fast to do anything about. I threw away a sprinter van (empty)on the Ostend to calais motorway some years back: around 6.30 am and hit black ice whilst doing about 85-90 in a straight line and next thing the back had overtaken the front and, before I knew it, I'd been spat off the motorway and down an embankment taking out assorted scrub trees along the way. Was in heavy early morning traffic too so was lucky not to hit anyone...
 
Plenty with no Snow experience in Oz, even with chains fitted, usually badly I would see plenty sideways and have no clue why. There speedo reading way higher than actual speed. There is a big clue there.
 
Some drivers just don't understand even the most basic aspects of how a vehicle interacts with the road. An acquaintance of mine (friend of a friend) was on a small side road approaching a give way sign at a highway at a T intersection. It was a downhill approach and was raining. I dunno whether her car had ABS or not, but she hit the brakes, failed to stop in time and shot straight out onto the highway where she got T-boned by another car. No serious injury to anyone but 2 cars written off. The police turned up to sort out the mess and asked her what happened. She told them she was coming down the hill to the intersection but wasn't able to stop in time to give way. Then she said one of the dumbest things I've ever heard anyone use as an excuse. "It wasn't my fault - the road was wet"  ::)
 
I vividly remember the first time I aquaplaned a car. It was also a T intersection close to home and I was driving the Family Biscuit coloured Stationwaggon with cross-plys fitted. I was 18 and managed to get off the brakes and back on them and not rear-end the car stopped in front, very very close though. Scared me GOOD, and I learning a great lesson about lack of adhesion in the wet. Wouldnt skidpan testing be a good idea for COCKY learners who think they're way better than they are before they do learn the hard way. Older COCKY drivers as well.
 
A while ago Cam Donald (TT rider) wrote an article in the now defunct 'Motorcycle Trader magazine concerning rider aids. He was commissioned by BMW to acquaint prospect owners with the the latest and greatest BMW sports bikes on a closed circuit. Part of the acquaint involved riding the bikes with all the rider aids in different configurations including 'off'. He noted that most of the riders had become so used to the electronic gizmos that they could not ride safely with the bike in the off or 'track' mode.
 
Legs said:
A while ago Cam Donald (TT rider) wrote an article in the now defunct 'Motorcycle Trader magazine concerning rider aids. He was commissioned by BMW to acquaint prospect owners with the the latest and greatest BMW sports bikes on a closed circuit. Part of the acquaint involved riding the bikes with all the rider aids in different configurations including 'off'. He noted that most of the riders had become so used to the electronic gizmos that they could not ride safely with the bike in the off or 'track' mode.
Click to expand...

That is off course also true if you're used to wearing glasses.
Once you're used to them.

Paul
 
sfcpiet said:
So you're comparing a physical with a psychic deficiancy? ::)

piet
Click to expand...

No, I'm comparing two identical learning procedures and how once learnt, they are very hard to undo. I should have specified, for glass wearers who can get by without but for whom it would require an important effort.

If you prefer, it's like scoffing because today no car driver could cope without power steering or power assisted brakes.
We can do without.

Paul
 
The point Cam Donald was making is that a lot of 'modern' riders rely on the electronics not to crash instead of rider skills. Suppose the same can be said about modern cars!
 
I don't like modern cars that do everything for you. Auto transmission, automatic headlights and wipers, all sorts of safety overrides if you fuck up, like ABS, traction control, lane assist, automatic braking (AEB). All that stuff pretty much turns the driver into a passenger.

I enjoy driving, so I like to actually drive the car myself. My car has a manual transmission and no fancy electronics. It does have a "ding-dong" reminder to tell you that you've left the lights on or the keys in the ignition, but it gives me the shits. I feel like I'm being nagged by my fucking car.

There was a rear end crash at traffic lights here a while back that I read about in the local RAC(Tas) magazine that I find in the letterbox every month. Some bimbo with a fancy car (Lexus I think) got into the habit of not using her brakes when coming up behind a stationary vehicle at the traffic lights. She'd just do nothing and let the automatic braking take care of it. One day the system failed.
 
But it is here to stay. Eventually the manual override will disappear too and you won't be allowed to drive it at all. Just where will motorbikes fit in?
 
I had a conversation with a bod who was explaining to me that electric self drive cars will solve congestion by driving nose to tail with only a small gap between them ,enabling many more cars to travel on a given road. What a great idea, I said, you?ve just invented the train!
 
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