Handling thread - reprise

Thanks Scott,

Thats a really good price. They cost that much each over here. Moto Rob was looking for some a few weeks ago he should have a sticky beak.

Cheers
Chris
 
Arrrgh!

Getting a bit frustrated here. I can't get the thickest bit of the front wheel axle bolt back through the fork lower.

It looks like the lower is in two parts, and the inner has moved slightly upwards - the pinch bolt at the bottom of the fork lower will not go through its holes either. Comparing the two sides, the inner bit of the very bottom of one lower (with the concentric growves machined in it?) is slightly recessed on this fork, whereas the other side is flush with the very bottom of the fork.

Has anyone delved into this area? How is the inner fixed to the outer? Mine needs to move downwards about 2mm.... I'm not sure how it moved during disassembly - one of the damping rods was quite tight and I had to tug the stantion out of the lower, but I didn't use a great deal of force...

Chris
 
morison said:
Thanks Scott,

Thats a really good price. They cost that much each over here. Moto Rob was looking for some a few weeks ago he should have a sticky beak.

Cheers
Chris

Chris, Scott, I am indeed in the market for a new set of stanchion. Have decided to stay with the marzos.
Gowenlochs want about $230 each, so Scott's quoted price sounds a good deal. Scott, how do they compare with NOS?
Price from Wolfgang, $260 pair so not much in it. Is Wolfgang's NOS or patterned??
Road & Race selling NOS ceriani stanchions for 200/pair but according to Crispen Lav caps don't fit, something about Ducati!!
I do like the look of the internals in the Cerianis compared to the Marzos and still have the option of resurrecting them with new stanchions, but my race tech springs and emulators would have to interchange.
 
Chris, I don't really understand what the exact problem is from your description.

"Getting a bit frustrated here. I can't get the thickest bit of the front wheel axle bolt back through the fork lower.
It looks like the lower is in two parts, and the inner has moved slightly upwards - the pinch bolt at the bottom of the fork lower will not go through its holes either. Comparing the two sides, the inner bit of the very bottom of one lower (with the concentric growves machined in it?) is slightly recessed on this fork, whereas the other side is flush with the very bottom of the fork.
Has anyone delved into this area? How is the inner fixed to the outer? Mine needs to move downwards about 2mm.... I'm not sure how it moved during disassembly - one of the damping rods was quite tight and I had to tug the stantion out of the lower, but I didn't use a great deal of force..."


The front axle has a step in it. Each lower fork leg hole is differend diameters,so firstly make sure the axle is going in from the correct side. It sounds like the spacer between the wheel bearings has dropped a bit so the axle is being stopped from passing through easily. There should be shaped shims that sit behind each wheel bearing to grasp the tubular spacer that I think is causing the problem. Some folk replace bearings and don't refit these shims as they can get damaged removing the old bearings.
In such cases you can either remove the bearings, install the shims and refit bearings 8preferably new ones) or you could stick a screwdriver in from the other side of the wheel and jiggle it around to align the tubular spacer while pushing the axle through with moderate force. It is too easy to fack up the threads on the axle. DAMHIK...

It seems then you are asking another question about how the stanchion and the slider bolt together.
The damping rod is held in the slider by the large allen bolt (don't forget the copper washer) that fits up underneath (and is obscured by the axle when in place).

Why the pinch bolt will not go through the slider is a mystery, as it should be clear of the axle at all times.

Just don't use brute force. You may need 3 hands but don't just try to whack it into place.

I get lost when you talk about inners and lowers...
 
Hi Grant, sorry if my post was not clear...

If you look at the underside of a fork slider, ie the bit with the holes in that the axle goes through, you will see it is in two pieces. The damping rod bolt hole is actually in a seperate piece of alloy. This is also drilled and the axle goes through it too. On one of my sliders this bit of metal has moved upwards by about 2mm. This means the axle hole has a step in it and the bolt will no longer fit. Also, the pinch bolt at the very bottom of the fork slider has the same issue and will also not fit.

I was wondering whether anyone had removed this lump of alloy from the slider and whether it was pressed or glued or screwed in...

Chris
 
I have tried driving the misaligned block back downwards without success. If no one has any other ideas I'll drill out the pinch bolt hole and grind down the axle hole so I can get the axle in...

Chris
 
 Don't do that Chris.

 The bottom of a Ceriani leg has a sleve in it, I recon you have bashed the sleve trying to get the damper rod out.

 Place the fork leg bottom down on a nice flat surface, push the thin part of your wheel spindle through the hole grip one end in your hand pushing down and holding the spindle square and tap the free end with a soft hammer, the sleve should then slide back into place.


   Keith
 
Hi Keith! I tried that earlier. Also tried sticking a pry bar through the hole so it sat on the sleeve and jumped up and down on the ends of it. Also tried a bar that fits inside the damping rod holder down the inside of the slider, with some hammer action on the other end of the bar. Its not moving!

How is the sleeve inserted? Should I wallop it harder or consider using a press?

Chris
 
  Maybe give the outside of the leg a quick warm with a heat gun and try again, if you have acess to a press then put a mandrel through the hole and press the bottom of the leg. Dont think the sleve is that tight a fit but then again I have never had recourse to take one out.


    Keith
 
Cheers for the advice Keith.

I've chucked up a few photos of the issue:

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=1657426&l=726239f25c&id=1059689104

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=1657424&l=495e41e8d9&id=1059689104

From the ingrained dirt it looks like it was like that for some time. I remember the axle being a bugger to get back in when I changed the wheel bearings about 8 years ago when I first got the bike. Maybe me holding the slider on the floor while a mate pulled the stanchion and therefore damping rod out was the last straw...

Chris
 
Well, I never knew there was a sleeve in there. Is that Marzo or Ceriani? Maybe they both have them. I'll have a look next time I have one apart. It's not shown as a separate part in the Marzocchi manual, so it seems the factory jammed it in there never to come out again.

It looks like the fork sliders are made as a tube open at both ends, then a plug is fitted into the bottom end. That certainly answers a bunch of "how the fuck did they machine the inside of the slider" questions that are often in my mind when I disassemble forks! I guess it would have to be quite a tight interference fit to be oil-tight (unless there's an o-ring in there). If it's just an interference fit, then I assume they heated the leg in the factory to get it in there, then machined the axle/bolt holes afterwards.

I'd suggest you don't do any more hammering. You could be spreading the top of the plug and jamming it tighter. Take Keith's advice and find a friendly engineering shop that has a press. Use a spacer to protect the the inside end of the troublesome plug (like a suitably sized penny washer).  Using a press is more controllable and less likely than a hammer to damage anything. It'll move if you push it hard enough. Cracking the joint as you have, may have compromised the oil tightness. Once you have it back in place, it might be worth putting a bit of Loctite After Lock around the accessble end of the mating surface to re-seal it.

If it's shifted far enough to block the oil drain hole, then leaving it where it is and adjusting the axle hole is a less than optimal solution.

Good luck. Let us know how it turns out.

Cheers,
Cam
 
Hi all,

Thanks for all the help and advice on my fork slider issue. I did a bit of lateral thinking - most of the resource on the web for Ceriani forks seems to refer to earlier ones fitted to mostly British bikes, so I took the slider to a local workshop that deals with such items (although he's diverging towards BMW twins at the mo - he's built a big bore /7 cafe racer that is VERY nice).

He'd seen the issue before, waved the oxy-acetylene torch over it in key areas, slid a tubular mandrel into the slider, tapped it once and rather smugly gave it me back. Sorted, and no charge, and no time to drool over the Panther in his workshop either. I think I'll drop a bottle of nice whisky round when the bike is back on the road....

So the Jirage was back on it's wheels last night - I'll finish putting it back together tonight.

And thank you, D C Rogers of Great Kimble!

Chris
 
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