Hi-Siding pros & cons !

Laverda SF

Laverda SF

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Honestly if I did not know how to manipulate Hi-Sides I would be DEAD riding any 2 wheeler let a lone a Breganzie.

Little hint in Quarry : Size, Length, Weight and Power of Mopeds BUT try to keep it in the Breganzie range let alone a Manure Spreader or a Hay Combine.

Examples: Nothing like riding a 69 Triumph Bonneville which involves the teaching of Hi-Siding and cornering technique's - Really doubt another Motor cycle on earth could teach you this - Maybe a Honda CBX 450 - Actually a great Bike in my opinion.

I was forced to learn this CRAP from Uncle Roy whom put me in charge of a Farm All Tractor on a Sheep FARM with 2 Boarder Collies. 800 Dorset Ewe's, 2 Rams and Sheep Shit - Fuck you Auzzies and your Breganzies.

I was destroyed as a human being before I was 16 riding a 67 BSA Lightning along with a Dutch friend Cattle header riding a Norton Max 500 on the Next Concession.

We did get into trouble occasionally - No doubt our family's worked it out with the LAW as we were Cheap TOP HANDS for Hire in the County.

AS IF but True ;o)

And there was Shirley and Janie, sweet Stable Girls, whom rode tractors and horses and extremely dangerous ;o)
 
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Ron ....... I`ve heard of a Honda CBX 550 , but not a 450 ....... and a Yamaha T-Max , but not a Norton Max ....... ;) ........

........ saw Carl Fogarty high-side out of a slow corner at Suzuka once ...... ( he must have been at least 15 feet up in the air ) ...... but he had just parted company with a Ducati 916 ...... not a manure spreader , or even a combine harvester ........
 
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Vince said:
Ron, can you elaborate on manipulating high sides, Are you talking about sliding the rear?
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Good question, Vince, because high-side to me means you didn't get away with anything but hit the deck. I've had two and there's simply nothing you can do to stop it. One was out, then back, after the tyre gripped and over the inside, the other was just over the outside when the tyre gripped.
 
I stopped one once on an MX track, pure arse. I was virtually doing a hand start over the bars and managed to lock my hand grip before sailing over. Absolutely amazing how much energy was being produced to launch me.
 
I can see no pro’s whatsoever to high-sides. At least the majority of mine have been at relatively low speed, mostly on twist and goes. 🤕
 
Cosi said:
The pros are you got on the gas too early and or suspension tyre pressures need attention…
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Yep, the first assertion is definitely true of mine - not sure about the second - but doing a track day at Winton on a pretty ordinary tyre and almost imperceptible drizzle contributed to both my offs. Neither resulted in major damage to me or the bike - save the tank, which was nicely squashed by the bars and forks.
 
I still don't fully understand mine, I had just discovered rear-wheel steering on dirt a couple of months earlier, fantastic feeling, I was not doing anything different from multiple successful laps of the track. Samari Park at Nowra when it happened. Apparently, it occurs when you suddenly get major traction mid-slide or back off the throttle and the tyre bites. There was no warning that I noticed, just me suddenly being violently launched vertically. It is good to learn where the limit is, and better if you don't get hurt doing it.
 
Defining High-Siding:

Put it this way: Say your going too fast and running out of asphalt in a corner. The tires are an inch away of leaving the asphalt on to the gravel and there's Death in the Ditch.

WHAT DO YOU DO! Stay frozen and Pray hoping that the tires will NOT hit the gravel or INSTINCTIVELY take control "HOW" by deliberately High-Siding the bike into the corner to prevent High-Siding over the corner !

Yes: Many motorcycle accidents happen by uncontrolled High-Siding.

High-Siding deliberately is a move that you shift all your weight opposite the ditch with the ditch leg straddled over the seat and off the center peg. The other inside leg with your knee dragging the asphalt and the ball of that foot planted firmly on the end of the center peg. THEN you deliberately turn the bars pointed into the ditch and hit full throttle.

What do you think to bike will do ?

It takes nerve, muscle and practice to feel comfortable to make High-Siding away to ride.

Hell of lot more fun way to ride then putting around with your ass planted in the saddle ;o)

If you have ever ridden Enduro's in the bush you know what I mean.

Sad part is getting old and can't ride my Cafe like I use to and can't say I should have traded her in for a Hog Saddle - SO I sold my beloved 70 Breganzie 750 SF0 and quit riding at age 70 - Most of all I have the right to say that I rode bikes for 45 years and I'm still alive mainly because of that Breganzie ;o)

I would would not be here now if I kept the Suzuki 1100 GWX Kantana because it would have killed me and it would have disintegrated into Japanese aluminum dust by now.

I rode a lot of motorcycles but I have to say that 70 Laverda Breganzie 750 SF was an amazing motorcycle.

She would fall over just looking at her and demanded attention that you tune her up and go racing together - Real thoroughbred, wanted to go faster all the time and dangerous if you slipped up.

Not a practical bike for putting around but she can do it under a whip to keep her tame and not do a dropsy when parking.

Mutual agreement between that Breganzie and me - Is that I love her, take care of her and ride the shit out of her and then sell her when I was worn out to a younger Cyclists whom will, in turn, love her, take care of her and do what she demands ;o)

That bike will surely out live me. Quite the character that 70 Breganzie 750 SF0 is - Seems I always get off track and somewhat sentimental in this Forum - HIC !

My 750 SF0 could real wheel steer to a degree with the suspension buried while High-Siding at 80 to 90 mph through a Rock Cut corner in the Cambrian Shield - She had to it or we would both die - Believe it or not ;o)
 
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Problem with the nomenclature here Ron. What you're referring to is 'sliding' - 'power sliding' to be precise. Talk to any racer and they'll definitely confirm that 'high-siding' is a bingle - the bike throws you over the high side. It's not fun. If you save it (maybe by doing as you describe ... power sliding) you can avoid the bingle but then you HAVEN'T high-sided.
High sides seem to have become a lot rarer in MotoGP and hi-end racing in general - my theory is that tyres are so advanced compared to the period of endless hi-sides (eg the Gardner, Doohan et al era) that lean angles have become way more acute and the result of losing grip is far more likely to result in a low side - FAR more preferable than a high side. Some of the wild saves by guys like Marquez at insane lean angles would have been virtually impossible for the aforementioned guys to pull off.
 
There is a hell of a lot of electronics, traction and wheely control plus suspension damping changes all happening live even designed to work with the bike leaned over plus adjustable sliper clutches that mitigate high sides from happening. This electronics adjusts who knows how many times a second, the data blokes who adjust this stuff at race tracks work miracles. You probably have heard racers thank the team after a win, there might be someone turning spanners but it's the data blokes who control what gets adjusted. All well and good but sitting on it is a bloke with the balls to twist its tail to the max and see what happens with zero fear. That ain't me, I try very hard to not be in a position to need extreme actions to get home from a ride.
 
Laverda SF said:
High-Siding deliberately is a move that you shift all your weight opposite the ditch with the ditch leg straddled over the seat and off the center peg. The other inside leg with your knee dragging the asphalt and the ball of that foot planted firmly on the end of the center peg. THEN you deliberately turn the bars pointed into the ditch and hit full throttle
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Sound like 'laying her down' so you low side into the ditch.
 
Sound like 'laying her down' so you low side into the ditch.
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psg: Well there is the control factor.

My Breganzie had amazing grip on the asphalt in High-Speed Corners before she would low side after a High-Side input, probably to her being Top Heavy.

YES I did low side her once going through an intersection corner that was soaked with Anti-Freeze from a previous car accident - Right in front of a Police Cruiser - Rather embarrassing that I had to call a Wrecking Truck to carry my Breganzie home to repair the minor damage and bruises she gave me. Really nothing more embarrassing sitting with your ass on the pav with your bike on her side in front of a Cop Cruiser. Cops tried to charge me with careless until I showed them the Anti-Freeze which was not cleaned up ;o)

As I said: It takes Guts and Practice to ride Cafe Style effectively and the High-Side approach to every corner is the Fastest way around corners because you are planting the most weight down into the asphalt keeping the bike most upright with your Body (Ass off the seat) working as a counter weight hanging off the in side. The front wheel is somewhat pointed in the opposite direction of the corner as you are intentionally High-Siding her to drop her over to get the most bit on the asphalt at High-Spd.

Granted your front forks have to be perfect with no wobble or you risk stubbing her and going over the bars. Takes Practice and more Practice every time you mount a Cafe bike because that's way she wants to be ridden if you plan riding her fast through the corners - Other words by keeping your ass planted on the seat my Breganzie was a PIG in the corners.

With out action and running out of asphalt through a corner and crashing in a ditch is an uncontrolled High-Side in my opinion ;o)
 
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As I understand it , power sliding , (or drifting ) , is an exaggerated , deliberate , but controlled form of countersteering .........

High siding occurs when the rear tyre looses traction , or adhesion , in a turn ...... and takes on an un controlled , over exaggerated , form of countersteering , rather like the way a speedway bike behaves in a bend ......... That`s not so much the problem ........ the problem occurs when that wayward tyre suddenly finds traction again , snapping it immediately back into line with the front ...... That sudden movement carries the rider with it , but then ends so abruptly , that the riders momentum continues , and he finds himself being thrown up into the air ....... If you are leant over in a left hand corner , the high side will tend to spit you off and over the bike immediately the rear tyre finds traction again , and the bike snaps itself back into shape ..........

....... Never experienced it , so no first hand knowledge ( thank goodness ) ..... just my understanding , correct or otherwise .........
 
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High siding occurs when the rear tyre looses traction , or adhesion , in a turn
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No that's incorrect that would be Low-Sliding. A High-Siding incident usually occurs when your are straight up and going to fast to make a corner.

To correct the situation is to deliberately create a Hi-Side in the opposite direction by throwing all you weight on the inside peg and straddling the seat with your outside leg and hanging your body weight off to the inside of the corner and pushing the bars towards the threat (The bike immediately falls over away from the ditch) then hit the throttle just enough not to skid the rear tire but load the suspension and enhance tire bite on the asphalt. This Forcible action will immediately change the center of gravity keeping your apex and favor you making the corner. Granted if you over do it with throttle you will loose the rear end and Low-Side slide into the ditch - Don't ask me how I know; but, it take practice to ride Cafe Style where you can approach corners fast and go throw them faster ;o)

As I say the bikes suspension and tires have to be top notch if you ride Cafe. Power to the rear wheels is not that important unless your a GP Nut where you have a perfect asphalt track with lots of safe run off and ambulances available . I was just a Northern Ontarian Motorcyclists riding a 1970 Laverda Breganzie 750 SF0 for 45 years and not much could beat me through the winding Hills and Asphalt of the Cambrian Shield at 120 mph down any straight - LOL
 
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I `m pretty sure I understand what you mean when you refer to high-siding to avoid ending up in the ditch , Ron ............. but it still sounds like counter-steering to me ......

Sounds like we`re using the same phrases to mean different things ...........

Your interpretation of high-siding seems to include developing a cornering technique .......... Over here , high-siding just means a bloody big accident ..........

As I see it , low-siding , can ( or will ) occur when the front or rear tyre looses grip in a corner ................ the thing is that in a low -side , the bike does not regain traction , as the bike is sliding along on it`s side , and the tyres have lost all contact with the ground , with the rider sliding along the ground beside it ............... ( or underneath it ) ........

With high-siding , the rear tyre will lose grip , but the bike remains relatively upright , with the tyres still in contact with the ground , and the rider still on board ...... the moment the rear tyre regains traction , the bike corrects itself , and that force of movement flicks the rider up into the air .......

As we understand it , if you high-side , you have already gone past the point of no return .......... It`s too late to save the situation , you`re already flying through the air .......

If you watch below in slo-mo at 0:08 , you can see how the rear looses grip , then corrects itself , resulting in the rider being thrown into the air ........ Now that`s a real high -side ...... :oops: ..........

Like it says , you`ll have to go direct to YouTube .........

 
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