Ignitech

Unfortunately, the translation from Cesky to English is not real good in all literature.  Some of the terms they have used do not provide an actuate description and can be quite misleading.....  particularly when its all new!
 
I have the Ignitech Sparker TCI-P4 version v88 installed on my RGS.

It runs really well with it. The way it revs out from a slow second gear corner is way ahead of where it was before. I can hold it longer in second gear, and the transition to third is much better, and it keeps on revving in third.

When revving on, sort of cruising, from around 3.5k RPM, it back fired a bit, in small detonations, which were hard to hear, and could have been in the carbs, as well as the muffler.
The back firing seemed to get less, or disappear, when the temperature gauge went up, to normal running temperature. It seems like it was burning the fuel better when it got hot.

When I got back, after 25km, while I opened the gate and roller door, it idled really well. Once I got it into the garage, it revved out nicely when I blipped it. Much better than it had done before.

That?s where I?m at. I?ll have to muck around with it a bit more, but I?m pretty happy so far. 

Below is what I did to connect it to a standard RGS1000. Before I started this, my bike was starting easy, and running well, especially now, after I had checked the timing with a piston stop and degree wheel.

This is what I bought from Ignitech.
The Ignibox (this is what I will call the black box, TCI-P4).
A wire harness for a Laverda RGS 1000.
A USB to RS232 cable for my laptop. For this cable, you need to download a driver from the internet, and install it on your laptop.
A CD with:
- The Ignitech program, Version 88.
- A sample setting was supplied. It was called ?Laverda 3x120? v88?.
- A PDF instruction manual.

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This is what the supplied sample setting looked like. 10 degrees base advance, with a 35 degree full advance.

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I ended up putting zero degree base advance with mine, and left the full advance setting at 35 degrees. The strobe is reading 29 to 30 degrees full advance on the degree wheel.
I came up with zero degree base advance after trial and error. When I had it at 6, 7, or 8 degrees base advance, and 29, 30, or 32 full advance, the strobe would not read more than 22 degrees full advance.
Once I went to zero degrees base advance, I got a strobe reading of something closer to 30 degrees full advance. I was then happy to ride it, and happy to find it runs well.

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Installing it was easy once I worked out the colours for the coils. On both the Ignibox, and the RGS wire harness. I needed the RGS workshop manual for this.

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RGS harness - coil/cylinder 1 (left, when sitting on bike) ? black, front CDI
RGS harness - coil/cylinder 2 (centre) ? green, centre CDI
RGS harness - coil/cylinder 3 ? orange, rear CDI

Ignitech coil 1 ? Orange
Ignitech coil 2 ? White
Ignitech coil 3 ? Yellow/Black

The Orange, White, and Yellow/Black, on the Ignibox, are in one corner of each of the six pin connectors.
The Orange, Black, and Green on the RGS harness, can be seen a few centimetres back from the connector.

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I came up with a temporary foam and cable tie mount. 

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You need a degree wheel, strobe light, and a laptop.

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My next step is to drop the full advance back and see how it goes.
 
Flipping eck, you guys have lost me..not difficult though! Don't recall all this stuff with my Red  Sachse, on my Jota though did have it fitted by Keith initially must confess. Managed to reset ok after having to take off to repair the starter clutch. Guess the ignitech may be cheaper but sounds like you need to know what you are doing..
 
Good work Chappo.

Chappo said:
I came up with zero degree base advance after trial and error.
Click to expand...

I dunno how many times I've said this  ::)
Base advance is not an exercise in guesswork or trial and error. Nor is it any use asking somebody else what theirs is set at. It's a fixed value for your installation that you need to measure. Just set the advance curve to zero at all revs, strobe the degree wheel and you've got it. It's as simple as that.

You can get rid of those Bosch BTZ boxes now. The bike will accelerate better because it'll be half a kilo lighter.  :D
Don't chuck them in the bin though. People pay silly money for them on ebay.

Chappo said:
My next step is to drop the full advance back and see how it goes.
Click to expand...

If you're running flat top pistons with mild cams then 35 might be OK. With HC pistons and F1 cams you might need to bring it back to less than 30. You'll be able to tell if the engine is happy by the way it pulls through the rev range, but seat of the pants tuning (the arse dyno) may not get the absolute best out of the engine. A session on a dyno will get it perfect.

Cheers,
Cam
 
Dellortoman said:
Good work Chappo.

Base advance is not an exercise in guesswork or trial and error.  Just set the advance curve to zero at all revs, strobe the degree wheel and you've got it. It's as simple as that
Click to expand...

Thanks Cam, yes I'm aware the base advance is different for each bike. I did set all advances at zero, and put the strobe on the degree wheel, and read... zero!? I swapped the ignition back over to original, and read around 7 degrees BTDC.
Once I tried zero in the base degree setting on the Ignitech, things got better.

Dellortoman said:
You can get rid of those Bosch BTZ boxes now. The bike will accelerate better because it'll be half a kilo lighter.  :D
Don't chuck them in the bin though. People pay silly money for them on ebay.
Click to expand...

I think I'll leave them on, as a back up, until I can trust the new addition.

Thanks.



 
That sounds right. You should get a different base advance reading with the Bosch and Ignitech. With a base advance of zero (as you measured), then the Bosch ignition will give it 7? of advance at idle because you can't re-program the bosch box for no advance.
 
You lot are supposed to be riding the Laverda's not being "curve" techs....is nothing sacred....  seems not,  grin.  Fun sorting curves is it not?  Only took Graeme and me 2 years,  some novel curves in this thread,  novel as in Yes Minister....  wry smile,  Regards to all J.

 
Ah... two bobs worth, Cam is on the money,  TDC is static as a given,  what is not constant is piston moment to moment instantaneous velocity ie the piston slows as the combustion chamber  load compresses. If  you use the most forward reference crank marker or pickup signal and use a time derived plot as to predicting actual piston position ( cold cranking start is the worst effected ) the piston arrives late and you have considerable "advance" which kills starter clutches as the piston drives back against the starter clutch.... wait there is more.... maybe of use to some...let me know...  J. 



Dellortoman said:
Are you sure about that Piet?

I think it would be damn near impossible to design such a feature. The problem being that there's no such thing as "advance" with an electronic ignition. The pickups don't predict the future. They can't see the rotor lobe approaching and then decide to fire before it gets there. All it can do is use the previous lobe pass and engine speed to calculate where the crank is. So a 30 degree "advance" is actually a 330 degree retard from the last rotor pass (or 690 degree retard in the case of a non wasted spark ignition).

The reason that the ignition point jumps all over the place at idle when viewed with a strobe is that the crank speed varies a lot when the engine is running at just above stall speed. If there's a plus or minus 3% variation in crank speed at idle, that's 10 degree error on the 330 degree calculation that the ignition has to perform. So the actual ignition point seen by the strobe will jump around plus or minus 10 deg. There's no "wandering idle" feature as such built into the software, it's simply an inevitable consequence of lumpy idle.

The interesting outcome of this is that it does actually help regulate the idle speed. If the engine speed increases, the error in ignition point moves in such a way as to slow it down again, and vice versa. I guess this is why it's sometimes thought of as a feature of electronic ignitions that the clever designer programmed into it.

Cheers,
Cam
Click to expand...
 
Ah! John, I ordered one of your systems about 10 years ago mate...is it ready yet?Never could understand what you are on about though! :-* :D
 
nick7 said:
Ah! John, I ordered one of your systems about 10 years ago mate...is it ready yet?Never could understand what you are on about though! :-* :D
Click to expand...

It is electric speak Nick, a similar language to legal speak just not as expensive.  ::)


    Keith
 
Dunno it reads ok to me,  then i would say that would'nt i.... wry smile. 

  Not so easy finding words that are able to transfer concept and actual physics of this and that.  All anyone can do,  is do the best and hope the many ( or few ) find value, it would be a gift of considerable scope that did impress 100% of the punters...... alas,  not me be one.

  The "dynamic" idle mentioned is in fact a CONSEQUENCE of software and hardware design choices,  it can help ( Cams contra idle description ) and it can hinder ( damage a cold cranking engine ) if enabled as such.  Cold cranking start at a hard reference crank index of 5-8 DBTDC is the most decisive protection of the starter clutches, witness the demise of the dreaded rooted starter clutch of 80's.  Hardly ever hear about it these days, a win for all the digital ignition designers whom hard index a crank at 5-8DBTDC.

  Best regards J.
 
What  are you that hard up for someone to stand in front of the community dart board for target practice?  You know me,  will do anything for attention.... darts and all.  Tah for the invite, all,  when/where is it on?  J.
 
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